Advice Please

[Little Nanny]

Need some advice and help please. Background is that my daughter has 4 children age 13 - 5 and since the breakdown of her marriage to a violent man, has suffered depression and mood disorders resulting in her using drugs and alcohol over the last 3-4 years and most seriously an attempted suicide at the start of the year. Children had a spell living with us whilst we tried to get help for our daughter. As a result social services have put children in child protection plan following conference, which I was allowed to attend on the basis of neglect. I haven't been able to attend core meetings and they also insisted that the father attended even though they were made aware of domestic violence. And he has subsequently tried to bully and intimidate my daughter as he is now privy to all her personal life being discussed at the core meetings.
My daughter has been following the plan, going to counselling, womens aid meetings, adsys meetings engaged in all the support - children are doing well at school, seem happy and healthy. And my daughter in a 6 month period genuinely seems to have turned a corner even though there has been no real acknowledgement of her poor state of mental health when the protection plan started.
In the last 3 days, however, I received a phone call from SW asking if the local authority made the decision to remove the children from their mothers care whether I wanted to be considered for assessment. I said yes naturally but then queried whether that was likely, to be told that they couldn't disclose that information. I asked again what the concerns were to be asking that question and SW said she couldn't give me any information and 'that she had been told to ask me' and that I had better talk to my daughter!
I saw my daughter that evening and she is also completely unaware of any developments and she said she had all the minutes of the meetings which were all positive and that she was doing everything she had been asked to do. However, she is in a new relationship and I believe he does have a criminal record. The SW has done police checks etc and SW has met with the individual and my daughter has agreed that they complete unannounced visits whenever they want so nothing to hide.
I have called the SW 3 times to discuss developments as this is causing me and my daughter some anxiety and she has so far refused to return any or my calls.
My daughter phoned her 2 days ago and was told that she would be getting a letter that afternoon - my daughter asked about what and was told she couldn't disclose what was in it! There has been no letter so far but I am now very concerned about the lack of communication and Social services seem to be closing ranks and clearly very concerned that they are taking legal proceedings to remove the children. I can't believe that they can treat people this way and leave both my daughter and her wider family completely in the dark, can't be in the interest of anyone surely?

[David Roth]

Hi Little Nanny, and welcome to the family and friends carers' discussion forum.

It sounds as if you are in a position that must be quite worrying, where you are aware that social workers have concerns about your grandchildren, to the extent that they have asked whether you would be able to take them in if needed, but you have not been told what those concerns are. Similarly, your daughter was told that she would be receiving a letter, but the social worker would not discuss with her what is going to be in the letter.

From what you have said, it sounds as though the social workers may be considering going to court to try to get care orders for your grandchildren. For more information about what this would involve, I would suggest consulting our Advice Sheet 15, which gives full information about care proceedings: http://frg.org.uk/need-help-or-advice/advice-sheets

Part of what social workers have to do before taking a case to court for care proceedings is to check whether there are any family or friends that the children could go to, if it is decided that they have to leave the care of their parents. They have done the correct thing by phoning you to check this out. However, if it was not definite at that stage that the children would have to leave their parents' care, then the social worker probably felt that by giving you full information she would be passing on their confidential information, which is why she suggested that you go to your daughter to find out. It is possible that your daughter knows more about this than she has told you, e.g. about the offences committed by her new partner. However, I would advise you that if it does get to the stage where social workers ask you to take on the children, you should make sure that at that point you have absolutely full information. Being the actual carer is a different position from being sounded out as a potential carer. People who are raising children who are at risk or who have been abused in some way need to know the full background if they are to meet the children's needs.

If social workers do ask you to take in the children, you may have to negotiate with them about what the children's legal status is. This can be quite a complex matter, especially if you are new to the whole area of social workers' involvement with children, but decisions made now about legal status can have longlasting consequences for you and the children.

You may find that the social workers ask you to accept a residence order or interim residence order on the children while the case goes through the court process. They might suggest that you apply for special guardianship orders at the end of the process. These orders would give you parental responsiility for the children, but would lessen your rights to get financial support and other support services from the local authority.

However, if the local authority asks you to take in the children, then there are case law precedents to suggest that the children ought to have 'looked after' status (i.e. they would be in the care system), and you should be assessed to be their foster carers. As foster carers, you would be entitled to receive the full fostering allowance, and any other support services that the local authority provides to all its other foster carers, such as training and out-of-hours support. You could still apply to be special guardians at the end of the court process, but you would have more rights to get an SGO allowance if the children had been previously looked after than if they avoided this by being under residence orders.

You say that your daughter was expecting to receive a letter from the local authority - as you posted this a few days ago, she should have received it by now. In the circumstances you describe, that may well have been the 'letter before proceedings', which would have formally outlined their concerns about your grandchildren. If your daughter was willing to share that letter with you, then you could see for yourself just what their concerns are. There is no reason for social workers not to discuss their concerns with your daughter in advance of her receiving the letter, but as the letter is part of a formal process the relationship between her and social workers does go onto quite a formal footing at this stage. What your daughter needs to do is get legal advice as soon as she gets a letter like this. If the letter you referred to is a 'letter before proceedings', then it will entitle her to get legal aid in opposing the council's applications for care orders. She should check the Law Society's website to find a solicitor who is on the children's panel, i.e. who specialises in this area of law. Getting specialist representation is very important - the solicitor who did your conveyancing may not have the relevant expertise for care proceedings.

Your daughter may find it helpful to phone our advice line to discuss her circumstances. The freephone number is 0808 801 0366, lines are open 9.30am-3pm Mon-Fri.