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What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

May12345
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:03 pm

What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by May12345 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:09 am

Good morning, you can read all the details on my other post but today I plan to take the kids into town to go to the sales. Times like this they always ask if their Daddy can come with us if he's off work which he is at the moment. We are 20 months down the line since he had to leave our home and he was charged with IIoC 200 ish cat B 7 cat A. He has said all along he didn't know most of the pictures were there and there is proof he blocked alot of the men he spoke to who either sent things or if he was asked if he had children he always said no. He did however engage in indecent chat with other individuals which he wasn't charged for but was a concern. Is a concern. Anyway fast forward 20m our youngest is now 10m,I was very early pregnancy when we got the knock. Other kids are 14,12,10 and almost 8. Two boys two girls and baby girl. We both had a forensic psychological assessment. My husband was in the Dr's opinion medium risk of reoffending mainly because of drinking over recommended amount which was totally wrong as he told the Dr how much he drank when he first had to leave home but the Dr wrote it as now... He also passed a drug alcohol test at work in spring and can be tested anytime for his job. Risk of contact offending was low and unlikely according to the Dr and according to the SW even the SW or myself would be low risk because no one is no risk.... 🙄
I have done Protective parenting work, been told that I have a good depth of knowledge even more so on safety for the kids online that the woman who did the work with me but still that wasn't enough the Psychologist said I had been in denial and didn't believe my husband would reoffend. Categorically not true I still check his phone and devices now if I didn't believe he would reoffend I wouldn't be doing that. We have put our children first rhe whole time. I had been saying I wanted to reunite the whole time but since the report I've said that I don't want to make any decisions about that atm and want to supervise for now only. My mum has been cycling up to supervise twice a week since it began and contact is at our home. The kids all know why Daddy's not at home atm and repeatedly cry and ask for him. They are on CPP still and PLO apparently tp find the assessment. I now have to do the Inform LF course and have a report and intervention on that.
What I want to know is what would the CS reaction be if I told them that I am going to supervise my kids with their father in public? Days like today they are unable to go out with their parents unless my mum is there and I feel it is unnecessary and my poor children deserve better. Obviously I know it is their fathers fault but I can confidently say and know I can supervise them in public I have considered toileting etc and have ways around any possible issue. They are my children and surely I should have some say after all this time! There are no other issues whst so ever. I am completely responsible and I'm reaching my limit of being told what I can and can't do with my own children!

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by Miserylovescompany2 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:17 am

I would put this back to CS in writing - Ask them to kindly provide a written as to the steps they require you to take to enable you to supervise contact. Right now it's pretty much one way - they are placing unrealistic expectations that there is no longevity to. What happens if your mother for whatever reason is unable to supervise? Do the children have to go without seeing their father?

By doing the above you are chucking the ball back into CS court. With regard to the forensic report - I think the section relating to alcohol needs to be challenged. Or at the very least the correct time frame added. The phycologist can be asked to expand on how he/she arrived at his/her current conclusion. Or, your partner could volunteer to do regular testing. (I'd put that in writing)

May12345
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:03 pm

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by May12345 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:46 am

Thanks again Misery 🤗 for replying over the holiday period. Hate that I never get a break from the stress and strains and worries of all this :cry:

I will indeed do that I am expecting they will not budge at all though. If she's been unwell we have missed contact. Her blood pressure has been high with the stress. Next time she is tired etc I will tell her not to come and I will email SW in advance telling them I will not make the kids kiss contact. We will be going here for this length of time, if the boys need the toilet the older one can take the younger one the older girl can take the younger girl, if baby needs changing we all go in the baby changing room apart from husband. They will not be left alone with him for a moment even in public. I will do this and also email my solicitor in the new year. It's time I stood up to them we have done all they asked in the last 20m. My only fear is if they could use this against me or take the children if I went in public with their Father they would say this was unsupervised. The Dr didn't mention public contact at all he said that at present I cannot supervise contact in the family home and at present he cannot come home he did not say I can't supervise in public.

PerfectlySafeDad
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:57 am

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by PerfectlySafeDad » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:49 am

'What I want to know is what would the CS reaction be if I told them that I am going to supervise my kids with their father in public?'
I'd say they'll find a problem with it, as if it's a kind of mission to Mars, when it really isn't. I'm just going by what they once said to me why I couldn't just, for example, meet up with my own kids in town without supervision since my SHPO allows for it (with my ex's consent) and since no history of contact offence whatever in 25 years of teaching let alone with my own kids, of whom not a shred even of improper thought towards (beyond the safeguarding brigade's ''but how do we know?" BS). Their response was, "but it's complicated by 'other' children you might come into contact with thus a risk of SHPO breach" (at this point they have the effrontery to make out they are considering MY safety too!). Good luck to you, though. You can ask; maybe if you pester them enough times over all every situation they'll get the message they just have to back down because their structures are unworkable and inhumane in the real world.
I find it rich that they're on a CPP - doesn't that stand for 'child protection'? - yet they're crying for their Dad and especially sensitive at Xmas time. God I detest these people.
They just don't give a **** with practicalities do they? At this time of year it really rankles, I know only too well. For me, no phone calls even to my sons on Xmas day let alone improved contact. Why? Because they 'advised' this and no unsupervised 2 years ago over the phone to my then wife, and out of timidity/ultra-respect for authority (call it what you will) she obeys to the letter. To press for more with her would be treading on egg-shells and jeopardise otherwise steadily improving relations at the contact meets (the CS's classic 'divide to conquer' tactics). To ask CS to move things on would risk 'rousing' them (they interfere in draconian fashion not because they must but because they 'can' - they feel obliged to if contacted, to tick their boxes), so I choose not to approach them and just hope my continuing thaw with my ex will bring about the progress I desire next year. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, as I can imagine these ***** (the CS) then turning round in another year's time and saying "well, you don't seem to care that much about your sons according to our records".

Edited by Suzie as in breach of rule 9

May12345
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:03 pm

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by May12345 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:06 pm

PSD it is unbelievably frustrating. He has no SHPO which CS pushed for twice to be told each time he doesn't need one so in their faces to that!
I do hope you make the progress you hope for this year. How long have you left on the register? Are CS still involved with your wife and children? When were you charged etc? I pray that our kids are off CPP March. In June it would be 2 years! I can't see them taking them off if there's any chance of their Dad coming home. I also need to email the SW to complain about him asking me everytime I see him even if it's been a few days before what my plans are regarding reunification and our relationship. Then telling me that there's no chance. Why keep asking me then! He didn't seem to like it when I said the PLO meeting had been positive. Then I realised he is a narcissist thriving on reactions, dismay, making me cry etc. Grrr. One thing they don't like about me because it doesn't tick their box is that though I do get upset on occasion I don't really get angry enough to lose my temper etc and they seem to be looking for that in regards my husbands offences.
OK so they may still say no if I say can I take my children in public with their father but legally what would they have power to do???

May12345
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:03 pm

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by May12345 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:08 pm

I have really had enough of these people dictating to me what I can and cannot do. There are no issues whatsoever with my parenting and I have always and will always keep them safe aswell as the Forensic Psychologists report saying my husband is unlikely to contact offend and low risk for that surely being in public would diminish that all the more particularly if I'm keeping watch! Have you had a psychological assessment done PSD?

PerfectlySafeDad
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:57 am

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by PerfectlySafeDad » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:47 pm

I'm simply unable to work out the status of these people. Their duty is to 'safeguard' children, of course, as they proudly remind us so often. Yet they don't, can't or take too long to intervene when some child is in desperate need, and they seem able intervene all too effectively where the only 'need' is basically in their heads; 'future possible risk of possible harm' or whatever. They have no powers of sentencing and no powers of disruption unless granted by a judge, yet their directives or so-called advice has very real punitive effects on a parent, for considerable lengths of time (forever, potentially, if you don't fight it, since they'll just let things dangle if they're happy their backs are covered). They have the title 'Local Authority', and don't they just revel in that. Yet it seems they're only an 'authority' by arrogant posturing, a pretence at expertise in situations and characters they don't understand, and the potential that they can initiate a whole load of hassle. Thus, in my case, even though no judge has forbidden it, no existing paperwork forbids it, and no harm has ever been done on them (by me), for 2 years I've found myself unable to speak to my sons on the phone, write letters or see them outside 2 hours a fortnight supervised. All because my ex believes 'that's what we've been told'. I can't stress her by pushing her to make a stand, and I don't want to approach CS myself for the same reason and because I don't want to rouse them into one of their dreaded 'plans'. Two tactics in evidence here: Divide to conquer, and control by intimidation.
From what I read, once in their system, it's like a black hole you never get out of. They just feel they have to tick boxes, to approve the slightest change, and it can take 3 months to tick one as I discovered when getting a friend to sit in on my contact meetings (my ex was present anyway, and this friend already had a DBS from her role in a charity, yet the CS felt they had to send for another - which got lost when a social worker went off sick, thus *bang* 3 months contact with my kids annihilated; surgeons would be struck off for equivalent negligence, yet disruption of family is all in a day's work for CS).
You never get to speak to the decision makers unless you have the balls and persistence to force your way through a clogged switchboard, and if you do it's at your peril because you'll make an enemy of them; they can't abide anyone with the gall to question their wisdom or who may be more intelligent and logical than them, all the more they'll feel they have to impose their nominal 'authority'.
Where exactly are these people based, what do their filing systems and offices look like, how do they communicate within their own hierarchy? I think a full disclosure of these things would be shocking, shambolic, capricious.
No, I've never had a psychological evaluation done. I'm assuming (well, hoping) that is covered by the work with probation. As I see it, the community sentence (and it IS going well, 66% done, despite how unrepentant I may seem on here) I got was to address a certain set of offensive behaviour - namely the internet - and that behaviour has been stopped. That's it. There was and is nothing else, so I don't see what else needs 'evaluating'. Sentence served for crime committed. Simples. Anything else is just persecution, harassment, and ought to be plain illegal. Probably it is, it's just that no poor wretch who has found themselves on the register has the strength and acumen to assert this in an officially effective way, and no capable lawyer has stepped forward to get it clarified in law.
So no, no evaluation for me.. yet. I'll lose the will to live if they suggest (ie order) such a thing after my 3 more years are up on the register. In fact, I've already made my mind up that I will never sign anything that implies I am a risk to my own children in any way, even if they make this a condition for contact to progress, eg in a so-called Protection plan. Much as I'm desperate to be a proper part of my son's lives, I'm prepared to make such a sacrifice on principle. Punishment and treatment for crime - not punishment for 'possible risk of a different (and imo so obviously a worse) crime'. When I'm off my SHPO I'm just going to get out there and get on with the business of being a Dad, and they can try and stop me if they have nothing better to do.

May12345
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:03 pm

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by May12345 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:07 pm

I'm sorry your contact is only two hours a fortnight. Your poor sons :cry: I don't know how they think that is beneficial for a child. And I also don't understand why you are not allowed to phone them? Have they ever given a reason for this? What if your son asks to speak to you?
Another thing I thought the other day is why do my sons need supervision around their Dad when the images were female... I'm not saying I would want the rules to be different for them than the girls as that wouldn't be fair but like with your son if the images were female what risk do they think you pose to your sons? It's bizarre and confusing!
Do you happen to know if there is a way to pay for a better solicitor than we have by legal aid? Not that we have any money but I'm not sure how much the legal aid solicitors fight for a case really. They certainly haven't said much yet in the PLO meetings. Did you ever have a solicitor through legal aid or were your sons never on plo? I do hate them being on it and pray that they will come off that and CPP as soon SS I'm proven protective. I'm still fuming about the report that this Dr has said I can't be protective as I don't believe my husband would reoffend when he didn't even ask me this! And the fact I check his devices myself announced and unannounced shows that I am not taking it for granted. I just feel very hard done by tbh when I've always been the best Mum I can be. Here I am living separately from my husband having spent one night with him in the last 20m and not even being trusted to make sure my children are safe while they see him. I long for the day I no longer have to have them involved but I completely understand they need to see further proof of my ability to protect.... Are your boys under CIN now?

PerfectlySafeDad
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:57 am

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by PerfectlySafeDad » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:54 pm

My sons are not under any kind of plan and never have been - as far as I know! - and this is precisely what I want to avoid, because of the length of waiting, pitfalls of communication and inevitably stupid, over-cautious and strangulating directives that will come from this. If they're 'asked' to get involved, as it were, then they'll do just that, and they'll feel they have to do it with complete back-covering, box-ticking 'procedure', and they either don't care or don't understand (in which case they must be thick) that these procedures have a life-changing, punitive effect on a parent (if not the children too).
I want to avoid approaching them at all costs, and my hope is they'll gradually just drop away when they hear of the progress I've made (probation, and ultimately getting off the register) and my ex-wife (in the stability and smoothness of our contact meets). Despite the agony of it, I made sure we had a great Xmas (so to speak, as it was on the 28th and I got no rights whatever over Xmas itself) contact session, on top of perfectly good supervised sessions throughout the last year. I don't want to shake up any of this by getting into fights with CS or raising a legal side, ie approaching a solicitor. Yet it is so obviously appalling this has gone on so long, and I feel I might have to take steps soon for my sons' sakes; they are VULNERABLE being now in a one-parent home, my ex working 20 hours a week, reliant on outside support, with one of them disabled.
2 years ago I was told (by my then probation officer - CS never have the decency to communicate personally with me) that the phone call thing was just a 'precaution', as I'd come off a suicide attempt (true, but it was 6 months prior and by then I was discharged from all care not even on anti-depressants anymore, and the court case was done and behind me which was a big factor), that it was only 'temporary, while a bit more work was done with me (I've since done probation's Horizon course with flying colours, the main part of my sentence, plus 2 years worth of one-to-one with my officer, and my risk was lowered months ago to 'medium'). Also they cited the reason for no phone was my laptop was under investigation again therefore added stress and why I shouldn't be allowed unsupervised with my kids even by phone. "I'm going through a lot" they kindly tell me, whilst being completely unable to grasp my stress would be far less if I was not getting ripped further and further from my children. The laptop was in fact because a vigilante made a random complaint I was simply 'using' it in public, which I am allowed to do, but they didn't like the look of this yet what was said exactly or by who is not disclosed by the police, people can finger an ex-offender at will with impunity, and after 14 months - FOURTEEN - it came back crystal clear no questions asked. It was at that point they condescended to put me down to medium risk. Having said that, I was stupid enough to confess I 'might' have deleted a single item of history (an SHPO breach of the smallest possible kind) out of nervousness - not that it was anything illegal, but just a Facebook petition page I had visited against social services. It would be amusing if the consequences of their mere 'precautions' were not so real and soul-destroying. As it turned out, there was no such deletion anyway; but that's the mental state their insane back-covering puts a person in; you just don't know what reasoning they'll come up with next to cry 'risk' next, and they have proven histories of making things 'personal' against people, and this panics a person into evasion and covering tracks that needn't be covered.
Also, from what I gleaned from my ex of the phone conversation she had had with them 2 years ago (it was short), CS claimed that since my SHPO states 'no unsupervised contact' then phone and letters better be ruled out since such things were technically 'unsupervised.' They're even patronizing enough to make out they are protecting ME from accidental breaches of the SHPO. It states that I can have unsupervised contact with her consent, and a solicitor once told me that there's nothing whatsoever in my SHPO to say I can't (for example) have a weekend away with my children, but that the only problem was in the SS's 'interpretation' of my SHPO. In other words, they're idiots.
The trouble is my ex has just put herself in their hands, because she's too scared and doesn't know what else to do. She tells them she'll follow their advice, and their 'advice' was (from that one short phone call) "go with supervised, for now" - two years ago. Ominously and tiresomely we're told, "There'll be a risk assessment", when and if she wants to move things on.
I'm guessing that's when all the 'Plans' will start, and that we simply haven't seen anything yet because they've got a situation they are happy with virtually no effort.
I'm coming to the conclusion, all things considered and from other cases I read on here, that their only policy is to keep me as far out of my sons lives as possible for as long as possible. I think they'd have made conditions even worse if they could, but it would have cost them too much work to be even more draconian; my ex did tick the 'yes' box on their forms to wanting me basically 'in' the kids lives, and even a family court judge would have raised an eyebrow at that being opposed I think.
For 2019, 3rd and final year of my sentence (but not SHPO or register, 2 more minimum for them), I think I have two choices:
1) trust in the continuing thaw in relationship with my ex (she technically has all the strings even if CS may make her feel otherwise) and that she will tell them when she's ready to move it on, and that they'll 'accept' it without complication or disruption.
2) see a solicitor who knows what they're doing, get them to approach CS on my behalf whatever the cost (I'd only go to pieces listening to their front of 'expertise' and draconianism), and get a written statement of where I stand and where it's going, so they can't shift their goalposts in two yet more years or, even more galling, make out I haven't 'tried hard enough' for my kids or some such crap.
Either way, I'm clinging to the hope I can see at least one son whenever he and I like once I'm off the SHPO (he'll be 14), and that physically they can't stop us and will have better things to do (as seriously they do have). Sadly, at this rate my disabled son is lost to me and me to him, aside from 2 hours a fortnight which is not enough by any sane definition, if my ex will never stand up to their 'advice'. He doesn't have the ability to come and find me, whereas my other does and will. It speaks volumes that our relationship is as strong as ever despite nigh on 3 years of severely limited contact, plus the awful implication that I'm some kind of danger to him that the very presence of these conditions must put into his head.
As I see it, this whole business (and everybody else's cases) comes down to how much you see this thing called a 'sex offender' getting all they deserve, or a 'human being' being harassed (and their family who would wish to stand by them).
Somebody on here once said to me, 'nobody owes you anything' - wrong actually. All of us are owed our Human Rights. That's why they exist in law; the question is whether the reasons for taking them away are good enough. The CS, by a mixture of brashness and slipperiness, make out their reasons are good enough and evade accountability for unbelievable levels of disruption.

May12345
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:03 pm

Re: What would happen if I told CS I will supervise in public?

Unread post by May12345 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:07 am

Hi PSD, I'm glad you have plans for progress either way in 2019 it definitely makes me feel more positive to have a plan A and plan B!

SW came yesterday and the visit was actually more positive than I had expected. He ready second email (had replied to the first quoting PARTS Of the report leaving out the positive parts!) so I replied saying how I feel it is important that the report is looked at as a whole. I then included paragraphs that mentioned the risk of contact offence being low and unlikely then asked how this would be an issue in a public place particularly with cctv and myself not leaving the children alone with their Father for a second. I also quoted the paragraph where the Dr says he believes I would not collude in any way with my husbands offending (if he reoffend Ed) yet the Dr still concluded that I cannot at the moment proactively protect 🙄🤔
I told the SWI have concerns about contact if my mum cant supervise if she's ill etc and whst would happen. He said I would have to find someone else to supervise. They wouldn't offer anything! I said there is no one else. I asked what would happen if I told them I would be supervising contact in public if my mum is unable to. Then I said "you would escalate?" he said "No! I didn't say that!" then said that they would be "concerned". He also more or less said that he knows I am protective and can see that with my reactions around the children yet he can't go against the report. Which is clearly wrong! So the way I see it THEY cannot agree to me supervising in any way at present until this Dr does. But I feel since yesterday that they would not necessarily escalate or take action if I told them I will supervise but would not be happy. This has made me feel alot better.
Our eldest is 14. There is no SHPO and he is a boy. I wonder if my husband can ever take him places for the day etc. I certainly hope he can soon.

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