Hi, i would like to know if social services who currently shares parental rights with me can stop me from moving to another area even if i agree to let social services in the area aware that me and my son have moved?
Summary:
Social services first got involved february 2012 after my sons dad was officially charged with sexual allegations he had committed when he was a child, he was asked to move out the family home and we both signed an agreement that hes not to have unsupervised contact with his son which we both have stuck on and we continued to stick to the agreement through out all the assessments that we were asked to complete right up to the end of november 2012 at the sentencing hearing and he got 3 year community sentence, 5 years on the register and he has to do a treatment programme. Because he was not sent to prison social services took us to court and from day one i have done everything that was asked of me and co-operate the best i can, the judge did not want to remove my son from my care as she had no concerns over assessments done on me and i take very good care of my son which SS have admitted themselves and in the end the proceedings ended with SS sharing parental rights with me on a care order with my son still being in my care so that they can "help me" and also while his dad is completing his programme. Everything went really well and my sons social worker even suggested i start putting my son in his own room then few days later she turned up with her colleague while my son is at the contact centre and told me to move into a refuge or theyll place my son into foster care. Not wanting that to happen i agreed. Apparently the judge had concerns over the assessments done on the paternal grandparents (i was staying with them) so i kept quiet as i get where they are coming from. I still keep in contact with my ex over the phone to keep him updated on our son and him with me on his programme. Right now i am not happy where i am and haven't been for a while and after everything that has happened i would rather tell my son myself when hes older instead of hearing it from others. For both our sakes especially his while hes still really young to have a fresh start somewhere else and right now thats the only thing apart from my son that has kept my emotions intact. The social worker told me that we cant move anywhere without them agreeing to it and knowing them i know the answer will be no. I need to know if they can stop me from moving.
Advice needed!!
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Advice needed!!
Hello Sez1992
My name is Suzie and I am an adviser at Family Rights Group. Welcome to the discussion boards and thanks for your post.
The care order on your son means that the local authority shares “parental responsibility” for him and share the rights and responsibilities to make decisions and plans for him with you. Any significant decision about your son should, therefore, be made jointly and/ or agreed between you and Children’s Services. If you cannot agree, however, Children’s Services hold a greater share of parental responsibility and can overrule you.
What this means in practice is that, although Children’s Services have no legal authority to stop you from moving to a new area, they have the power to remove your son from your care if they believe that this decision is not in his best interests.
If you do move to a new area, Children’s Services in your current area would still have a care order on your son and would remain involved. The only way to end this legal relationship would be to go back to court and have the care order revoked.
It sounds as though you have worked hard to co-operate with Children’s Services and show them that you are able to make good decisions in your son’s best interests. It is important that you continue to work openly and co-operatively with professionals to avoid any concerns arising.
I would advise that you speak to your son’s social worker about your housing situation and your intended plans. Highlight that your son is your priority and that you only want to do what is best for him. Set out your reasons for believing that a move would be in your son’s best interests and what you have done to consider your son’s needs. It would be useful, for example, to think about the network of support that would be available to you and your son in the new area (family and friends etc.) as well as looking in to professional support and services there, such as nurseries/ schools, children’s centres etc.
As well as the social worker, make sure that you have shared your views with your son’s independent reviewing officer (IRO)- this is the person responsible for your son's looked after child review process.
If Children's Services are not agreeing with you about a proposed move, ask them to be very clear about the reasons for this. It may be that there is additional support they could be providing to improve your current living situation or to get to a position where it is more appropriate for you to move.
As I said above, if you cannot reach an agreement about what is best for your son, you do have the option of applying to court to end the care order. You would have to be able to show the court that there has been a significant change of circumstances since the order was made and that it is no longer necessary to safeguard your son. If you were considering this option, I would advise you to seek some legal advice from a solicitor if possible.
I hope this is a useful start. Please do come back to us if you have further questions. Alternatively, you may want to call out free and confidential advice line when it reopens on January 2nd.
Best Wishes
Suzie
FRG Adviser
My name is Suzie and I am an adviser at Family Rights Group. Welcome to the discussion boards and thanks for your post.
The care order on your son means that the local authority shares “parental responsibility” for him and share the rights and responsibilities to make decisions and plans for him with you. Any significant decision about your son should, therefore, be made jointly and/ or agreed between you and Children’s Services. If you cannot agree, however, Children’s Services hold a greater share of parental responsibility and can overrule you.
What this means in practice is that, although Children’s Services have no legal authority to stop you from moving to a new area, they have the power to remove your son from your care if they believe that this decision is not in his best interests.
If you do move to a new area, Children’s Services in your current area would still have a care order on your son and would remain involved. The only way to end this legal relationship would be to go back to court and have the care order revoked.
It sounds as though you have worked hard to co-operate with Children’s Services and show them that you are able to make good decisions in your son’s best interests. It is important that you continue to work openly and co-operatively with professionals to avoid any concerns arising.
I would advise that you speak to your son’s social worker about your housing situation and your intended plans. Highlight that your son is your priority and that you only want to do what is best for him. Set out your reasons for believing that a move would be in your son’s best interests and what you have done to consider your son’s needs. It would be useful, for example, to think about the network of support that would be available to you and your son in the new area (family and friends etc.) as well as looking in to professional support and services there, such as nurseries/ schools, children’s centres etc.
As well as the social worker, make sure that you have shared your views with your son’s independent reviewing officer (IRO)- this is the person responsible for your son's looked after child review process.
If Children's Services are not agreeing with you about a proposed move, ask them to be very clear about the reasons for this. It may be that there is additional support they could be providing to improve your current living situation or to get to a position where it is more appropriate for you to move.
As I said above, if you cannot reach an agreement about what is best for your son, you do have the option of applying to court to end the care order. You would have to be able to show the court that there has been a significant change of circumstances since the order was made and that it is no longer necessary to safeguard your son. If you were considering this option, I would advise you to seek some legal advice from a solicitor if possible.
I hope this is a useful start. Please do come back to us if you have further questions. Alternatively, you may want to call out free and confidential advice line when it reopens on January 2nd.
Best Wishes
Suzie
FRG Adviser
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sez1992
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:21 pm
Re: Advice needed!!
Right now social services had made me signed an agreement not to go into the area where my only friend lives and also the area where his grandparents and auntie lives (only family he had contact with) which as far as i know they werent allowed to do that. Now we are both isolated and i cant make any new friends as ss will put a stop to it because assessments have to be done on them but so far they haven't made any effort to redo the assessment with the grandparents or do one with the auntie to enable my son to have contact with his family which is taking its toll on my son as he is only 2 and doesn't understand and ss made it sound so easy that he will get over it.
I have passed my parenting assessment and also the safeguarding assessment i was asked to do twice with 2 different professionals.
As soon as i move i have the intention of placing my son in a nursery and register him with a gp and a dentist. While ss have the care order it is very difficult for me to do anything as i cant go anywhere or see anyone without social services permission and they even put a stop to me being able to stay out while im in the refuge and if i want to take my son to a sure start centre or nursery they have to do checks first which i think its ridiculous as checks would have already been before the staff is employed plus its run by the local authority. I understand that while my sons dad still poses a risk as he havent finished his treatment programme yet and i cant expect to dicharge a care order and thats it so would i be able to request for a supervision order without having to wait 6 months.
If i cant make any decisions based on my sons best interest and poses a risk to my son then the judge wouldnt have been more than happy to let my son remain in my care. I know it is social services duty to safeguard my son but what they are doing so far is ridiculous. They didnt even arrange contact for christmas.
I have passed my parenting assessment and also the safeguarding assessment i was asked to do twice with 2 different professionals.
As soon as i move i have the intention of placing my son in a nursery and register him with a gp and a dentist. While ss have the care order it is very difficult for me to do anything as i cant go anywhere or see anyone without social services permission and they even put a stop to me being able to stay out while im in the refuge and if i want to take my son to a sure start centre or nursery they have to do checks first which i think its ridiculous as checks would have already been before the staff is employed plus its run by the local authority. I understand that while my sons dad still poses a risk as he havent finished his treatment programme yet and i cant expect to dicharge a care order and thats it so would i be able to request for a supervision order without having to wait 6 months.
If i cant make any decisions based on my sons best interest and poses a risk to my son then the judge wouldnt have been more than happy to let my son remain in my care. I know it is social services duty to safeguard my son but what they are doing so far is ridiculous. They didnt even arrange contact for christmas.
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Advice needed!!
Dear sez1992
It is very important that Children’s Services continue to work with you in the best interests of your son, and any family support to help you make the key parenting changes is offered as part of any new agreements.
Ideally the new written agreement should have been signed in the presence of all interested parties (and their solicitors) at court. This would help you to be very clear about what was expected with regards to key family members or ‘connected persons’ so you have every chance of taking protective measures to try to keep your son safe.
You have said that the grandparent and auntie are important people in your son’s life. Are these both relatives on your son’s father’s side? If so, do you remember if the previous assessments of them raised concerns about their ability to safely manage contact between your child and his father, given that he continues to live in the community and has not completed his community order?
If this is the case, and you are pushing for more contact (as your post suggests), and you are still in touch with the father, then I suspect they will be concerned about the ongoing risks to your son's safety and your understanding of that. With no evidence of any changes to his circumstances, (even though the offences may have taken place some time ago), they will consider him to be 'high risk'.
A joint and up to date risk assessment should be completed by probation and the social worker. One that reports on the father’s progress, how he has engaged in any work offered, and his risk of re-offending in future.
It would be helpful if your ex partner would agree to this taking place, and can only help you to appreciate the level of concerns held by the social work team. Can I suggest you seek further advice from the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, as they offer expert support to families having to come to terms with issues of child sexual abuse, grooming etc
Because your child is living at home with you, a decision I assume was made against the Local Authority’s wishes. At this point, being able to establish a safe support network is key to you making a success of your situation, so that you can demonstrate being a ‘good enough’ parent to your child.
Without this, there is a danger of you becoming isolated, and having less chance of being able to prioritise your son’s needs and make the necessary changes that are required.
As stated previously, the Local Authority are only likely to agree to reassess family members, in the event there has been a major shift in their circumstances since the full care order was made.
It is important to make sure that you inform the Local Authority of any changes in your family’s circumstances, and these are properly reflected in the care plan and carefully recorded in the Looked After Review minutes.
In event you consider taking the matter back to court, and are asked to sign any new agreements, it is best to seek legal advice from the law society first.
Best Wishes
Suzie
It is very important that Children’s Services continue to work with you in the best interests of your son, and any family support to help you make the key parenting changes is offered as part of any new agreements.
Ideally the new written agreement should have been signed in the presence of all interested parties (and their solicitors) at court. This would help you to be very clear about what was expected with regards to key family members or ‘connected persons’ so you have every chance of taking protective measures to try to keep your son safe.
You have said that the grandparent and auntie are important people in your son’s life. Are these both relatives on your son’s father’s side? If so, do you remember if the previous assessments of them raised concerns about their ability to safely manage contact between your child and his father, given that he continues to live in the community and has not completed his community order?
If this is the case, and you are pushing for more contact (as your post suggests), and you are still in touch with the father, then I suspect they will be concerned about the ongoing risks to your son's safety and your understanding of that. With no evidence of any changes to his circumstances, (even though the offences may have taken place some time ago), they will consider him to be 'high risk'.
A joint and up to date risk assessment should be completed by probation and the social worker. One that reports on the father’s progress, how he has engaged in any work offered, and his risk of re-offending in future.
It would be helpful if your ex partner would agree to this taking place, and can only help you to appreciate the level of concerns held by the social work team. Can I suggest you seek further advice from the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, as they offer expert support to families having to come to terms with issues of child sexual abuse, grooming etc
Because your child is living at home with you, a decision I assume was made against the Local Authority’s wishes. At this point, being able to establish a safe support network is key to you making a success of your situation, so that you can demonstrate being a ‘good enough’ parent to your child.
Without this, there is a danger of you becoming isolated, and having less chance of being able to prioritise your son’s needs and make the necessary changes that are required.
As stated previously, the Local Authority are only likely to agree to reassess family members, in the event there has been a major shift in their circumstances since the full care order was made.
It is important to make sure that you inform the Local Authority of any changes in your family’s circumstances, and these are properly reflected in the care plan and carefully recorded in the Looked After Review minutes.
In event you consider taking the matter back to court, and are asked to sign any new agreements, it is best to seek legal advice from the law society first.
Best Wishes
Suzie
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sez1992
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:21 pm
Re: Advice needed!!
Yes the key family is on the father's side. The only concern is the grandparents as an assessment was done on them and it came back that they only accept what their son had done because of the consequences regarding my son not because they accept of what he has done which i accept the local authorities concern but no assessment has been done with the auntie and they have never had any problems with my son having contact with her until the full care order was in place.
My ex lives 3 hours away on a train and have been for a year since social services had asked him to leave the area to minimise the risk and only has contact with our son once a month, an hour and a half at a contact centre. I keep in contact with my ex on the phone every now and again to keep him up to date with our son as i would want the same if i am in my ex's position and only see our son once a month but apparently thats me putting my ex before my son and not making decision based on my sons best interest according to the new social worker which really p***** me off as im his mother who have been there from day one and every decision i make is for my son's benefit then i get these people strolling in thinking they know my son better than me all because they have a piece of paper that says they're "qualified". Even though when it comes to the "best interest" of children its the majority not each individual child in the country.
My ex lives 3 hours away on a train and have been for a year since social services had asked him to leave the area to minimise the risk and only has contact with our son once a month, an hour and a half at a contact centre. I keep in contact with my ex on the phone every now and again to keep him up to date with our son as i would want the same if i am in my ex's position and only see our son once a month but apparently thats me putting my ex before my son and not making decision based on my sons best interest according to the new social worker which really p***** me off as im his mother who have been there from day one and every decision i make is for my son's benefit then i get these people strolling in thinking they know my son better than me all because they have a piece of paper that says they're "qualified". Even though when it comes to the "best interest" of children its the majority not each individual child in the country.
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sez1992
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:21 pm
Re: Advice needed!!
Would i be able to apply permission to the judge to relocate if social services says no about me moving?
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ruby888
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:00 pm
Re: Advice needed!!
Hi i really need advice ss have issued a care order to take me to court after a serious incident what occurred between my bf and a lad he is currently in prision facing attempted murder charges they are saying i was involved as i tried to stop it. My baby girl is currently with my mum but im scared to death i sm going to loose her do you think i will loose my baby x
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Advice needed!!
Hi Sez 1992sez1992 wrote:Would i be able to apply permission to the judge to relocate if social services says no about me moving?
In answer to the above,unfortunately it is not as straight forward as simply asking the court for permission to move against the wishes of the local authority. In granting the care order, the court has accepted that the local authority should have parental responsibility in order to safeguard your son. The court has entrusted Children's Services with making decisions about your son's care that are in his best interests.
The court would not expect to become involved in decision making for your son again unless Children's Services intended to deviate significantly from the agreed care plan (i.e. they intended to remove your son from your care) or there had been a significant change in circumstances which may make it appropriate to end the care order.
Although there may be legal routes open to you, therefore, these are unlikley to be your best way forward.
I would advise, instead, that you continue to negotiate with the local authority, including your child's independant reviewing officer (IRO) about what is in his best interests and what further support you require. Put your position and wishes clearly in writing and ask that the local authority writes back to you indicating their position and the reasons behind this.
At the same time, I would also advise that you remain in contact with your solicitor, if possible, to ensure you are fully aware of your legal options.
I hope this helps.
Best Wishes
Suzie
FRG Adviser
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Advice needed!!
My name is Suzie and I am an adviser at FRG. Rather than answer your query on this thread, I am going to respond to the other thread that you started, entitled “Please help”. I hope this is OK.ruby888 wrote:Hi i really need advice ss have issued a care order to take me to court after a serious incident what occurred between my bf and a lad he is currently in prision facing attempted murder charges they are saying i was involved as i tried to stop it. My baby girl is currently with my mum but im scared to death i sm going to loose her do you think i will loose my baby x
Best Wishes
Suzie
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