Considering removing consent for section 20
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JXH
Considering removing consent for section 20
Back in march a social worker turned up on my doorstep after my 7 yr old son had gone to school and told his teacher that my then partner (not my son's father) had caused marks on his head the previous night, I believe that my partner had not done these marks as I was with him at the time of it happening and my son was upstairs alone also my son stated at the time that he had done them himself when I questioned him about how he got the marks so I thought nothing of it and sent him to bed with some antiseptic cream on the marks. My son was immediately removed from my care after the visit from the social worker and taking to my mothers house, the following day I attended a medial check for my son with the social worker, the paediatrician that looked at him said the injuries are unlikely to be self inflicted so then while I was upset, teary and vulnerable the social worker slammed a section 20 paper in front of me to sign only saying that it was so my son could remain in the care of my mother for the time being, after my son had been returned to my mums care little contact was made and I found it extremely difficult to contact the social worker to find out any information as to what was happening also no contact was made by my mother regarding my son for over a week, as I do not have a good relationship with my parents, My mother believes that I am also to blame for my sons injuries and has reported me a number of times to social services in the past regarding my children she has also taken me to court and got a residence order for my 10 yr old son to live with her after I gave up fighting against her in court for months, when I finally got to speak to my mother she agreed to let me see my son's but a hour before contact she informed me that I would not see my boys but would be going to her house for a care plan meeting which I had no prior notice of so I refused to go as I am normally not allowed to go to my parents house and I had not been asked by social services to attend this, I never got a copy of a care plan, I was not asked to agree to any care plan,I also do not have a contact arrangement plan with my Mother leaving her in full control over whether I see my children or not which on occasion she has refused to let me see them just because we don't have a good relationship and she chooses to use my children against me and say inappropriate things to them like it is my fault that they don't see me sometimes which is not the case, this upsets the children. After the first meeting took place I heard nothing from social services for a month then was allocated another social worker who was meant to start parenting assessments with myself and my partner by then me and my partner had separated after deciding it would be the best thing to do in order for me to get my son home again even though I was already expecting our 1st baby together. the new social worker kept on cancelling appointments and visits or turning up late, on one occasion she had organized a meeting about my unborn baby of which I turned up to and found out she has delayed it for a hour, my partner was not invited to attend most of the meetings that have already taken place. my violent ex partner my sons father is now trying to have our son in his care and has now also signed the section 20 paper for our son to remain in my parents care until he moves to the area to be able to have him in his care, my social worker has said to me that if I try and remove my consent now for the section 20 it will be very difficult for me as my ex has signed the papers. My social worker ignores comments I make about how controlling my mother is and how she is under feeding both of my sons resulting in them being very skinny and weak, I and some friends who I have spoken to about this have noticed a big difference in my sons weight during the time that he has remained in my parents care this isn't even being noticed by the social workers who see the boys. while my son has been in my parents care my supervised contact has been stopped twice by my mother as she is the one who has to supervise me with my sons with no written agreement, the first time she stopped contact for 3 weeks and the second time 5 weeks during the children's 6 week holiday from school, this was also when my social worker was away on leave for 3 weeks and then had another week off sick so nothing could be done until she returned. my new baby boy was born at the start of the school holidays, It said in a previous report that she would be visiting me at least once a week after my baby was born he is currently 8 weeks old and I have only had 2 visits from her, during her visits I have asked her questions which she did not answer as she said she would have to go ask her manager, when she came back a week later to answer my questions I was still unclear on the answers she gave, for example I asked her what would happen if me and my partner decided to resume our relationship would it jeopardise my son coming home? she said we would have to have more parenting assessments as a couple this time to even make a decision regarding that which is difficult now as my partner is now working 6 days a week and does not live locally any more. also I asked why my son cannot return home and why I have to be supervised with my 2 sons in my mothers care, the answer she gave was that I have a unstable personality disorder and I could pose a risk to them, I asked her what that meant and she did not give me a clear answer to what a unstable personality disorder was, I am starting to think that I will never get my son back no matter what I do or say, I have tried to cooperate with social care and have done everything that they wanted me to do for example accepting help from a family support worker and doing work with her around parenting and doing all the parent assessments. I feel I do not have a voice and I am seen as a liar where as my mum is believed with everything that she say and when she says negative things about me, on one occasion my mum reported that I was saying inappropriate things to my sons during contact just because I was then allowed unsupervised contact with them and she didn't like it so that resulted in me being supervised again by her. she also has both my sons passports and takes them abroad without my permission, she refuses to give me them back which I have told my social worker, she didn't do anything about or seemed to even care about the matter. I have already sent a complaint in but not had a reply yet, I see no other option but to remove my consent for the section 20 and bring my son home and risk going to court, But I am worried about what might happen if I do this, would it aggravate social care and result in them also trying to take my new baby away or trigger my mother into taking me to court again over my son who she does not have a residency order for, or his dad doing same so he has our son live with him. or do I just carry on cooperating with social care in the hope that they will allow my son to come home eventually, I have two core group meetings this week and the next conference meeting is in November.
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ange301126
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:27 pm
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
Dear JXH, I am sorry to hear of the stressful, difficult situation you find yourself in.You appear to have three antagonists . What did you do to get not only the sw against you but also your mother and ex?
Yes,as your child is in the care of your mother,it might be better to accept the situation,cut your losses and build bridges. If a mother and daughter cannot agree to disagree,make friends,trust one another and work together , who can?
If the two of you cannot cooperate ,this can only lead to further CS interference which will be harmful to the child especially should they decide to target him or her for the care system.
Having said this, I can see that you have thought fully about everything and I feel sure Suzie ( the FRG adviser) will reply to you soon. You are quite within your rights to rescind S20 and take the child home at any time .If you do, you can take the Police with you and take the child home tomorrow if you want provided you inform the social worker first.
If you do the CS will have the option to apply to court for a care-order.You should consult a solicitor to see how likely they are to get one .You certainly have the right to put the rights and wrongs to Court for a decision . Your child will be suffering emotional harm away from his natural mum,the Law recognises that and only a court has the authority to order separation.However, by hook or by crook, the L.Authority are highly likely to get an order if they apply and that will endanger your child.They may want to take him away from your family altogether. Wait and see what Suzie says ,then consult a solicitor before deciding.
Yes,as your child is in the care of your mother,it might be better to accept the situation,cut your losses and build bridges. If a mother and daughter cannot agree to disagree,make friends,trust one another and work together , who can?
If the two of you cannot cooperate ,this can only lead to further CS interference which will be harmful to the child especially should they decide to target him or her for the care system.
Having said this, I can see that you have thought fully about everything and I feel sure Suzie ( the FRG adviser) will reply to you soon. You are quite within your rights to rescind S20 and take the child home at any time .If you do, you can take the Police with you and take the child home tomorrow if you want provided you inform the social worker first.
If you do the CS will have the option to apply to court for a care-order.You should consult a solicitor to see how likely they are to get one .You certainly have the right to put the rights and wrongs to Court for a decision . Your child will be suffering emotional harm away from his natural mum,the Law recognises that and only a court has the authority to order separation.However, by hook or by crook, the L.Authority are highly likely to get an order if they apply and that will endanger your child.They may want to take him away from your family altogether. Wait and see what Suzie says ,then consult a solicitor before deciding.
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
Dear JXH
Welcome to the Parents Discussion Board. My name is Suzie and I am a FRG adviser.
I am very sorry that you are having such a difficult and distressing time with Children Services and your mother about your children.
It appears from your post that when you signed the s.20 agreement you were not told by the social worker the effect of signing the agreement and this was of course wrong. The social worker should have explained it properly. From what you have described about the process of your son being place with his maternal grandmother, that you were not properly consulted or given information about the plans being made for your son.
You have parental responsibility for your son and as such you should be asked for your views about plans. You should have been given a copy of the care plan and placement plan for your son. The social worker should inform you in advance of meetings and you should ask for this to be put in writing.
Regarding contact with your son, the care plan should include the contact your son will have with you. I suggest that you write a letter to the social worker and ask for a copy of the care plan and the placement plan. Ask you these documents to be sent to you within a specified period of time say, 5 or 10 days and an explanation why they were not given to you. You may wish to read our advice sheet about contact
Our advice sheet about the duties of children service explains what you should expect and what children services should do. duties
I think it is best that you put in writing any questions that you want the social worker to answer about how your case and ask for a written response.
As you son’s father has signed a s.20 consent this means he must also share parental responsibility with you for your son. I would advise against you removing your son from his placement with your mother as this could be taken by the social worker and children services to mean that you are not cooperating with them. Also, that you are not putting your child’s needs to be safe before your own needs.
If your son’s father decided to apply for a court order so he could live with him, the court would want to know that there has been a risk assessment because of his violent past. He may also be asked to do work with a domestic violence service. It would also depend on whether children services have any concerns about his ability to care for your son.
You should continue working with children services towards having your son home. If you work with them to address the concerns that they have about your son’s well being, this should help to get the outcome you want. However, you must understand that if there are any concerns about your son’s safety in your care it is unlikely he will be returned to your care.
It is likely that if you try to remove your son from the placement that children services are likely, as you have said, to apply for a care order or could support your mother to apply for a Child Arrangement Order (the new name for residence order) or Special Guardianship Order .
As far as assessment of you and your partner if you both want to care for your baby together it is important that he makes himself available for appointments. He could ask the social worker to give him dates so he can make arrangements with his work place to have the time off.
You do not say whether your baby is subject to a Child Protection Plan or Child in Need Plan. If this is the case the plan should state exactly what is required of you and what the social worker will do. It should also state what support you will be given.
Regarding the children’s passport, your mother has parental responsibility for your older son so she is entitled to have his passport. She can also take him abroad for up to 28 days because she has a residence order. In relation to your younger son she does not have parental responsibility and should return the passport to you if you request it. She should not take your younger son abroad without your agreement. However, it may be that when you signed the s.20 agreement you may have agreed to her being able to take him on holiday as a foster carer. I suggest you check the s.20 agreement to see exactly what you agreed to.
You say that the social worker has described you as having an unstable personality disorder. Unless you have been diagnosed with a personality disorder the social worker is not able to say what you are suffering from as she is not a psychiatrist or psychologist.
My advice is that you continue to work children services. You say there is a conference meeting in November. Is this a review child protection conference or a Looked after child meeting (LAC)? In either case, you should prepare for the meeting by writing out what you want to ask the meeting as this will help you to remember everything. You could also ask to have a friend or family member attend with you for support.
For a LAC meeting you may want to ask questions about when your son will return home; the arrangements for contact. You could also visit our website www.frg.org.uk and look at our A-Z of term for more information about what to ask at a LAC review meeting.
You should ask for children services complaint procedure. A copy of our advice sheet about challenging children services decision here children services
I hope you will find this information helpful. If you wish to speak to one of our adviser you can telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366.
Best wishes
Suzie
Welcome to the Parents Discussion Board. My name is Suzie and I am a FRG adviser.
I am very sorry that you are having such a difficult and distressing time with Children Services and your mother about your children.
It appears from your post that when you signed the s.20 agreement you were not told by the social worker the effect of signing the agreement and this was of course wrong. The social worker should have explained it properly. From what you have described about the process of your son being place with his maternal grandmother, that you were not properly consulted or given information about the plans being made for your son.
You have parental responsibility for your son and as such you should be asked for your views about plans. You should have been given a copy of the care plan and placement plan for your son. The social worker should inform you in advance of meetings and you should ask for this to be put in writing.
Regarding contact with your son, the care plan should include the contact your son will have with you. I suggest that you write a letter to the social worker and ask for a copy of the care plan and the placement plan. Ask you these documents to be sent to you within a specified period of time say, 5 or 10 days and an explanation why they were not given to you. You may wish to read our advice sheet about contact
Our advice sheet about the duties of children service explains what you should expect and what children services should do. duties
I think it is best that you put in writing any questions that you want the social worker to answer about how your case and ask for a written response.
As you son’s father has signed a s.20 consent this means he must also share parental responsibility with you for your son. I would advise against you removing your son from his placement with your mother as this could be taken by the social worker and children services to mean that you are not cooperating with them. Also, that you are not putting your child’s needs to be safe before your own needs.
If your son’s father decided to apply for a court order so he could live with him, the court would want to know that there has been a risk assessment because of his violent past. He may also be asked to do work with a domestic violence service. It would also depend on whether children services have any concerns about his ability to care for your son.
You should continue working with children services towards having your son home. If you work with them to address the concerns that they have about your son’s well being, this should help to get the outcome you want. However, you must understand that if there are any concerns about your son’s safety in your care it is unlikely he will be returned to your care.
It is likely that if you try to remove your son from the placement that children services are likely, as you have said, to apply for a care order or could support your mother to apply for a Child Arrangement Order (the new name for residence order) or Special Guardianship Order .
As far as assessment of you and your partner if you both want to care for your baby together it is important that he makes himself available for appointments. He could ask the social worker to give him dates so he can make arrangements with his work place to have the time off.
You do not say whether your baby is subject to a Child Protection Plan or Child in Need Plan. If this is the case the plan should state exactly what is required of you and what the social worker will do. It should also state what support you will be given.
Regarding the children’s passport, your mother has parental responsibility for your older son so she is entitled to have his passport. She can also take him abroad for up to 28 days because she has a residence order. In relation to your younger son she does not have parental responsibility and should return the passport to you if you request it. She should not take your younger son abroad without your agreement. However, it may be that when you signed the s.20 agreement you may have agreed to her being able to take him on holiday as a foster carer. I suggest you check the s.20 agreement to see exactly what you agreed to.
You say that the social worker has described you as having an unstable personality disorder. Unless you have been diagnosed with a personality disorder the social worker is not able to say what you are suffering from as she is not a psychiatrist or psychologist.
My advice is that you continue to work children services. You say there is a conference meeting in November. Is this a review child protection conference or a Looked after child meeting (LAC)? In either case, you should prepare for the meeting by writing out what you want to ask the meeting as this will help you to remember everything. You could also ask to have a friend or family member attend with you for support.
For a LAC meeting you may want to ask questions about when your son will return home; the arrangements for contact. You could also visit our website www.frg.org.uk and look at our A-Z of term for more information about what to ask at a LAC review meeting.
You should ask for children services complaint procedure. A copy of our advice sheet about challenging children services decision here children services
I hope you will find this information helpful. If you wish to speak to one of our adviser you can telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366.
Best wishes
Suzie
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frustrated mum
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:57 pm
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
I too am considering revoking a section 20 on my daughter. I have 2 one is mow back with me. I have no input from ss for 6 weeks. I asked for parenting classes for me and my daughter living with teenagers etc for sw to tell the carer i cant do it but didnt tell me. There is a fantastic support network for cared for children. The foster carers get support too but the parents espically who still have PR get left behind. I am having to change my contact this week to a different day, things in my life happen too. Its me whos the bad guy according to the carer im letting my daughter down even though im changing dates. My list is endless of problems im getting nowhere fast and its effecting my daughter who is asking to come home.
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JXH
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
Update
I emailed a complaint about my experiences to the complaints department and got a very good response from the team manager where my social worker is based, she basically said to me during her visit to my house yesterday that there has been a lot of wrong doing since the start of their involvement and a lot of things shouldn't have happened such as the contact arrangements being left in the hands of my controlling mother, I got a lot of apologies and promises of improvement and also a new social worker to work with me! and I am now seeing my sons in a contact centre twice a week until new assessments have been completed and the aim is to have my son back by November. Finally I feel like someone is listening to me and things are picking up.
I emailed a complaint about my experiences to the complaints department and got a very good response from the team manager where my social worker is based, she basically said to me during her visit to my house yesterday that there has been a lot of wrong doing since the start of their involvement and a lot of things shouldn't have happened such as the contact arrangements being left in the hands of my controlling mother, I got a lot of apologies and promises of improvement and also a new social worker to work with me! and I am now seeing my sons in a contact centre twice a week until new assessments have been completed and the aim is to have my son back by November. Finally I feel like someone is listening to me and things are picking up.
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ange301126
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:27 pm
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
Dear JXH, It's so pleasing to hear your complaint was heard and that the trends are now good and I hope it continues. Continue working with the CS who now seem to understand the child's paramount interests and are aiming to reunite you.Things can be so much simpler when they acknowledge this and react positively and constructively to complaints. Keep in touch.
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JXH
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
Could anyone tell me some information regarding the Section 20 and the 26 week statutory time limit?
What does it mean if the time has gone over the time limit with no extension?
What does it mean if the time has gone over the time limit with no extension?
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
Hello JXH
A section 20 agreement is simply a working agreement between a parent and the local authority. It is not a court order and is not bound by any specific timescale.
I think the 26 week time limit you are referring to is the time limit for care proceedings to be resolved? As you are not in care proceedings at this time, however, this does not apply in your case.
I hope this clarifies things.
Best Wishes
Suzie
FRG Adviser
A section 20 agreement is simply a working agreement between a parent and the local authority. It is not a court order and is not bound by any specific timescale.
I think the 26 week time limit you are referring to is the time limit for care proceedings to be resolved? As you are not in care proceedings at this time, however, this does not apply in your case.
I hope this clarifies things.
Best Wishes
Suzie
FRG Adviser
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JXH
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
Oh right, Thank you for the advice and information it has helped a lot.
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JXH
Re: Considering removing consent for section 20
Update
So after month's of cooperating with the social services and doing a parenting course and lot's of assessments and me being supervised in a contact centre after my GP sent letters stating my mother should not be supervising me with my children as she keeps on stopping the contact and also them saying that there is a lot of positives from my part, they led me to believe that my son would be coming home before Christmas right up until yesterday when they told me just before a LAC review that they think he should remain in my mothers care permanently and will support her in getting a residency order, My son has been asking to come home for months, So seeing as I would be going to court in any case I decided to finally remove my consent for the section 20 and asked for him to be returned to me straight away and wait to see what the courts decide, they said that would be disruptive for my son and would like me to give them seven days to plan a legal meeting and get a court order, they also said in the meantime I should still see my son in the contact centre and over Christmas should think about a way to see both of my sons considering I cannot see them unsupervised or see them at my parents as I am not welcome to do so on my parents part, My relationship with my parents is non existent after I disenclosed that I was abused by my brother at the age of 12 in a previous meeting, she won't communicate with me at all or wants to see me and is openly saying to my son's that she and my father do not want to see my baby son, The social services seem to think that this difficulty between me and my parents is my fault. they also try to say that I have a mental problem that requires for me to access and counselling service to be able to parent properly, my GP stated in her letters that I not have any mental problems/ illness I only feel deeply upset by my current situation. they stated yesterday that the reason why they have come to the decision is because my ex partner my baby son's father still visits for contact with our son every few weeks and that my older son is petrified of seeing him in affect telling me I should stop him from seeing our son or lose my older son who is the care of my mother and also stating that they think that I do not believe my son when he says that my ex partner abused him, I cannot say that he did as I never witnessed it myself they say this is very concerning. I have contacted my solicitor but I am waiting for her to call me for a date to see her. I would just like to know what my rights are and what to expect. Thanks.
So after month's of cooperating with the social services and doing a parenting course and lot's of assessments and me being supervised in a contact centre after my GP sent letters stating my mother should not be supervising me with my children as she keeps on stopping the contact and also them saying that there is a lot of positives from my part, they led me to believe that my son would be coming home before Christmas right up until yesterday when they told me just before a LAC review that they think he should remain in my mothers care permanently and will support her in getting a residency order, My son has been asking to come home for months, So seeing as I would be going to court in any case I decided to finally remove my consent for the section 20 and asked for him to be returned to me straight away and wait to see what the courts decide, they said that would be disruptive for my son and would like me to give them seven days to plan a legal meeting and get a court order, they also said in the meantime I should still see my son in the contact centre and over Christmas should think about a way to see both of my sons considering I cannot see them unsupervised or see them at my parents as I am not welcome to do so on my parents part, My relationship with my parents is non existent after I disenclosed that I was abused by my brother at the age of 12 in a previous meeting, she won't communicate with me at all or wants to see me and is openly saying to my son's that she and my father do not want to see my baby son, The social services seem to think that this difficulty between me and my parents is my fault. they also try to say that I have a mental problem that requires for me to access and counselling service to be able to parent properly, my GP stated in her letters that I not have any mental problems/ illness I only feel deeply upset by my current situation. they stated yesterday that the reason why they have come to the decision is because my ex partner my baby son's father still visits for contact with our son every few weeks and that my older son is petrified of seeing him in affect telling me I should stop him from seeing our son or lose my older son who is the care of my mother and also stating that they think that I do not believe my son when he says that my ex partner abused him, I cannot say that he did as I never witnessed it myself they say this is very concerning. I have contacted my solicitor but I am waiting for her to call me for a date to see her. I would just like to know what my rights are and what to expect. Thanks.
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