My pregnant daughter and her partner had one argument and police were called. So local authority was informed. An assesment was done and because of my daughters partners history (fights with lads) etc... Their unborn baby was put on a CIN plan. During the assessment some questions were asked by the SW on some very sensitive subjects to my daughters partner. She was very blunt, not tactful or diplomatic in any way. So my daughters partner got upset and annoyed and shouted at the SW and left hitting a wall on way out.
I went with my daughter to see this SW (I must admit I don't like her at all she is the worse I i have come across in her manner).
Well she has now put my unborn grandchild on a CP plan and we will be invited to a CP conference in 15 days. She has put very strict restrictions on my daughter and basically she is not allowed a relationship with her partner. What I am concerned about is that she has red flagged the hospitals and midwives to inform the local authority as soon as she goes into labour she cannot go to the maternity hospital of her choice and had been told she has to go to a hospital with more security incase her partner kicks off. She says if my daughter does not stick to.the plan then she will issue care proceedings. I am scared that this SW is aiming in getting my grandchild addopted for her bonus. The area we live in is natorious for children being removed for no.real reason at all. I feel that my family is being victimised by childrens services and my daughter is being bullied by this SW. They are infringing on our private life and taking my daughter and her partners rights away to be a family. Because my daughter was abused by my ex husband they are now useing that against her and saying she may not be able to parent R child but the local authority. lEave my younger daughter who is under CP with my ex husband a perpetrator the one that abused my older daughter. The whole system is corupt. I rely don't understand what these social w motives are or how yhey work. I just want them to leave my family alone.
my unborn granchild coming under CP
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ange301126
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:27 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
Dear dvsdurvivor,
I am sure you will advise your daughter on no account must she agree to voluntary accommodation under threats. Not to sign an S20 hastily thinking it is only temporary etc.
I can't remember where I read it exactly but recently, there was a case where someone like your daughter was discriminated against by sw's because of dv she had been exposed to as a child.
When throwing the case out, the Judge described it as 'Social Engineering' and said the Family Court was not to be used for those reasons.
It is beyond the pale that the sw has decreed ( without any genuine assessment and in the absence of any real evidence) that Dad is unfit to be involved with your daughters life.This is,of course, the same problem Heartbrokenfather has faced for over a year now.
Mum and Dad should stick together.
Has your daughter had to sign a ' CONTRACT OF EXPECTATIONS'? similar to the one in his case?
I am sure you will advise your daughter on no account must she agree to voluntary accommodation under threats. Not to sign an S20 hastily thinking it is only temporary etc.
I can't remember where I read it exactly but recently, there was a case where someone like your daughter was discriminated against by sw's because of dv she had been exposed to as a child.
When throwing the case out, the Judge described it as 'Social Engineering' and said the Family Court was not to be used for those reasons.
It is beyond the pale that the sw has decreed ( without any genuine assessment and in the absence of any real evidence) that Dad is unfit to be involved with your daughters life.This is,of course, the same problem Heartbrokenfather has faced for over a year now.
Mum and Dad should stick together.
Has your daughter had to sign a ' CONTRACT OF EXPECTATIONS'? similar to the one in his case?
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
Dear DVsurvivor,
I am sorry to hear about the difficulties your daughter is having at the moment. I understand that children services want to put her unborn baby on a child protection plan due to possible domestic violence. (Until the child protection conference takes place-there will not as yet be a child protection plan).
Have a look at our film about film child protection conferences.
Until the child protection conference takes place, the social worker has asked that your daughter stick to a contract of expectations which sets out measures to protect her from potential domestic violence. The contract is very restrictive. So she could try and negotiate some of the terms.
However, your daughter must also cooperate with any agreement that she makes. If she didn’t-this would be used against her. Children services would argue that she is unable to work with them-so they would not trust her to protect baby when it is born.
You have set out a number of factors which in my view would certainly give children services cause for real concern about domestic violence-which is very dangerous for children:
• The argument was worrying enough for the police to be called by your daughter/ a neighbour. The police will usually automatically refer to children services for them to assess whether your daughters unborn baby might be at risk of harm.
• Your daughters partner-hit the wall with his fist. This might show that he cannot control his anger-he is even displaying aggressive behaviour in front of a social worker. She would have felt fearful as well as your daughter.
• He may struggle keeping to boundaries-so this means the security at the hospital will need to be looked at. It may be unsafe for your daughter, baby and staff to have him present at the birth. Until this is assessed-no one can be sure. A child protection plan-would include a plan for what happens when baby is born, who can see baby, who can be present during the birth, where will baby live when he/she come home from hospital.
• Your daughter has unfortunately been a victim of abuse before-at the hands of your exe. Children services may be worried that she has not recognised that she may be a victim again.
As babies are so very vulnerable-relying completely on parents to care for all their needs and protect them from harm-I can see why the social worker has insisted that your daughter work to a strict contract.
She would be worried that baby could get caught up in the cross fire-and suffer physical injuries or suffer emotional abuse by witnessing his/her mother being abused.
What can the parents do?
Children services would need to fully assess your daughter’s situation-and can only do this if your daughter and her partner cooperate as best as possible with the
assessment.
Your daughter should get in touch with womens aid.
They can advice her about local resources that she could access-including an advocate to support her at the conference, counselling and the freedom programme. Given the fact she has been victim before and may be one now-it is really important that she does all she can to show that she understands the risk of domestic violence to her baby.
Dad could contact Respect who give advice about domestic violence. Although he may be finding it difficult to accept that his behaviour may be abusive-it is really important for him to realise that he needs to be part of the assessment process-so that if he does need support he can push for children services to help him.
If dad feels unable to cooperate with any assessment by the social worker, he will remain as potentially very high risk to his baby. So he may not be able to attend the birth of baby, he may only have supervised contact with the baby.
I do not want to scare your daughter but if she was to breach any agreement with children services (for example allow dad into the family home-when she had agreed she would not), then children services may no longer trust that she can put her baby before herself and dad and that she is putting her baby at risk of suffering “significant harm” and go to court.
Please have a look at our advice sheet about
care proceedings.
This is the time now for your daughter to get all the support she needs to ensure that she is not a victim to domestic violence and to ensure that herself and her baby are kept together and kept safe.
Other users of the parents’ forum may be able to offer advice about their own situation and the struggle they had- to get help and support from children’s services in domestic violence situations.
Children services must support your daughter to keep her baby-but can only do so if she can work with them and be assessed and also access the support offered.
Your daughter may want to contact our advice line for intensive support on 0808 801 0366.
Best wishes,
Suzie
I am sorry to hear about the difficulties your daughter is having at the moment. I understand that children services want to put her unborn baby on a child protection plan due to possible domestic violence. (Until the child protection conference takes place-there will not as yet be a child protection plan).
Have a look at our film about film child protection conferences.
Until the child protection conference takes place, the social worker has asked that your daughter stick to a contract of expectations which sets out measures to protect her from potential domestic violence. The contract is very restrictive. So she could try and negotiate some of the terms.
However, your daughter must also cooperate with any agreement that she makes. If she didn’t-this would be used against her. Children services would argue that she is unable to work with them-so they would not trust her to protect baby when it is born.
You have set out a number of factors which in my view would certainly give children services cause for real concern about domestic violence-which is very dangerous for children:
• The argument was worrying enough for the police to be called by your daughter/ a neighbour. The police will usually automatically refer to children services for them to assess whether your daughters unborn baby might be at risk of harm.
• Your daughters partner-hit the wall with his fist. This might show that he cannot control his anger-he is even displaying aggressive behaviour in front of a social worker. She would have felt fearful as well as your daughter.
• He may struggle keeping to boundaries-so this means the security at the hospital will need to be looked at. It may be unsafe for your daughter, baby and staff to have him present at the birth. Until this is assessed-no one can be sure. A child protection plan-would include a plan for what happens when baby is born, who can see baby, who can be present during the birth, where will baby live when he/she come home from hospital.
• Your daughter has unfortunately been a victim of abuse before-at the hands of your exe. Children services may be worried that she has not recognised that she may be a victim again.
As babies are so very vulnerable-relying completely on parents to care for all their needs and protect them from harm-I can see why the social worker has insisted that your daughter work to a strict contract.
She would be worried that baby could get caught up in the cross fire-and suffer physical injuries or suffer emotional abuse by witnessing his/her mother being abused.
What can the parents do?
Children services would need to fully assess your daughter’s situation-and can only do this if your daughter and her partner cooperate as best as possible with the
assessment.
Your daughter should get in touch with womens aid.
They can advice her about local resources that she could access-including an advocate to support her at the conference, counselling and the freedom programme. Given the fact she has been victim before and may be one now-it is really important that she does all she can to show that she understands the risk of domestic violence to her baby.
Dad could contact Respect who give advice about domestic violence. Although he may be finding it difficult to accept that his behaviour may be abusive-it is really important for him to realise that he needs to be part of the assessment process-so that if he does need support he can push for children services to help him.
If dad feels unable to cooperate with any assessment by the social worker, he will remain as potentially very high risk to his baby. So he may not be able to attend the birth of baby, he may only have supervised contact with the baby.
I do not want to scare your daughter but if she was to breach any agreement with children services (for example allow dad into the family home-when she had agreed she would not), then children services may no longer trust that she can put her baby before herself and dad and that she is putting her baby at risk of suffering “significant harm” and go to court.
Please have a look at our advice sheet about
care proceedings.
This is the time now for your daughter to get all the support she needs to ensure that she is not a victim to domestic violence and to ensure that herself and her baby are kept together and kept safe.
Other users of the parents’ forum may be able to offer advice about their own situation and the struggle they had- to get help and support from children’s services in domestic violence situations.
Children services must support your daughter to keep her baby-but can only do so if she can work with them and be assessed and also access the support offered.
Your daughter may want to contact our advice line for intensive support on 0808 801 0366.
Best wishes,
Suzie
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dvsurvivor
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:57 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
I myself have been on the freedom program and may I say that my daughters partner is not a perpetrator of domestic abuse he is not in any way controlling or dominating. They have been together for 7 years. It was my daughters friend that called the police. Yes it is wrong that he would not let my daughter leave that evening and it should not of happened. It is not an exscuse but my daughters partner had run out of his medication and it effects his mood.
The reason he got upset at the social worker is because she asked very personal, sensitive questions in a very blunt way.
The reason he got upset at the social worker is because she asked very personal, sensitive questions in a very blunt way.
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ange301126
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:27 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
Dear dvsurvivor,
As you will have seen, the ' concerns' of the CS can be rationalised to an extent and thank you Suzie for your excellent advice as usual.
I do, however, still think they are exceeding their powers and being overly-authoritarian.
Notwithstanding the REALITY that they completely rubbed up Dad the wrong way in an un professional , ham-fisted manner ( sw's are badly managed and poorly trained) and even if the Dad were found guilty in a court of thumping the wall, that would still not, in any reasonable person's view, preclude him from a relationship with your daughter.
The L.A. have a duty to examine all the facts fairly and must submit them to the conference and even then it would be for a court to decide on a care-plan which intrudes on civil liberties to such a high intensity. The CS can't make such an edict. Cases have to be conducted properly within the Children's Act (2013) frameworks and guidelines have to be followed. Who will enforce it? the conference chair hopefully
However, the REALITY also is that they have got your daughter to sign now ( before evenconvening a conference) so they have a hold on her just as they have in the Heartbrokenfather case.They have made their own decisions prematurely (without due procedure) and it is highly likely that all the evidence they present in the future will be angled towards supporting the decisions. Once they depart from the frameworks and make their own decisions as to the risks and their significance , they will potentially continue to conduct the case unfairly.
Indeed you are already in the best position to judge their motives having first-hand experience of the particular sw involved. Your view that your daughter's rights are being infringed is probably spot-on.
I suggest your daughter gets a very good solicitor but unless proceedings are commenced, she can't get legal funding. What to do until then? I don't know!
Well, I suppose she has to succumb to every decree they make, such as the hospital arrangements , or they will say she is unco-operative.Also she can get an advocate through Womens Aid as advised by Suzie. Dad can perhaps contact Mens Aid if it exists. Use the FRG helpline too!
As for you, you might get better advice and support from other grandparents on the other FRG forum.
Is your daughter's partner the Dad,by the way?
As you will have seen, the ' concerns' of the CS can be rationalised to an extent and thank you Suzie for your excellent advice as usual.
I do, however, still think they are exceeding their powers and being overly-authoritarian.
Notwithstanding the REALITY that they completely rubbed up Dad the wrong way in an un professional , ham-fisted manner ( sw's are badly managed and poorly trained) and even if the Dad were found guilty in a court of thumping the wall, that would still not, in any reasonable person's view, preclude him from a relationship with your daughter.
The L.A. have a duty to examine all the facts fairly and must submit them to the conference and even then it would be for a court to decide on a care-plan which intrudes on civil liberties to such a high intensity. The CS can't make such an edict. Cases have to be conducted properly within the Children's Act (2013) frameworks and guidelines have to be followed. Who will enforce it? the conference chair hopefully
However, the REALITY also is that they have got your daughter to sign now ( before evenconvening a conference) so they have a hold on her just as they have in the Heartbrokenfather case.They have made their own decisions prematurely (without due procedure) and it is highly likely that all the evidence they present in the future will be angled towards supporting the decisions. Once they depart from the frameworks and make their own decisions as to the risks and their significance , they will potentially continue to conduct the case unfairly.
Indeed you are already in the best position to judge their motives having first-hand experience of the particular sw involved. Your view that your daughter's rights are being infringed is probably spot-on.
I suggest your daughter gets a very good solicitor but unless proceedings are commenced, she can't get legal funding. What to do until then? I don't know!
Well, I suppose she has to succumb to every decree they make, such as the hospital arrangements , or they will say she is unco-operative.Also she can get an advocate through Womens Aid as advised by Suzie. Dad can perhaps contact Mens Aid if it exists. Use the FRG helpline too!
As for you, you might get better advice and support from other grandparents on the other FRG forum.
Is your daughter's partner the Dad,by the way?
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dvsurvivor
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:57 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
Yes my daughters partner is the unborn babies father. And NO my daughter has not signed any agreement with the SW. She has a PLO meeting on Monday now. So it looks like they have started legal proceedings. A pre birth assesment has been completed. My daughter and her partner have not seen a copy of this and the SW has not gone through it with them either. The SW just said she has done it and dead out a list of restrictions saying that if my daughter does not stick to them then the SW will start.care proceedings. This SW has acted In a very unprofessional way she has not stuck to her guideline, we have caught her out lying on many occasions. My daughters partner has no history of violence towards children or when children are present. So how can she do this without any evidence.
I am so very worried she is targeting my grandchild cor adoption to get her bonus.
I am so very worried she is targeting my grandchild cor adoption to get her bonus.
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ange301126
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:27 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
Dear dvsurvivor,
All the signs are that you are correct. The question is what can you do about it?
The problem is that the Police referral gave the sw's reason to get involved ,as Suzie says.
Tell your daughter to contact womens aid to arrange for advocacy immediately and tell her not to sign anything. If they have arranged a PLO meeting before even holding a cpc, that does not sound like the correct order of procedure. She needs an advocate and should raise the point with a solicitor.
She should make a note of everything and say nothing to the sw's (unless they conduct the case properly). As Suzie says, they will say she is uncooperative and unable to work with the department but read Heartbrokenfather's thread and you will see where cooperation has got him.
Suzie may well advise cooperation and there is a lot to be said for that. You can ask for other advice from others aswell. Send a letter to the Prime Minister and you will probably be advised that if the case isn't being conducted properly to the guidelines, the only remedy is an appeal to a court able to overrule the CS.You might p.m. Heartbrokenfather and ask him.
If your daughter gets a solicitor , he or she will probably advise her to cooperate no matter what the prime minister's office advises. Some parents and self-help groups will advise the couple to flee from the CS jurisdiction!
Whether to call their bluff or not, that is the question! I can only advise that she says the absolute minimum and not to give them the rope with which to hang her baby! Also to be very careful which solicitor she chooses.If your daughter's partner (Dad) telephones the FRG helpline,I anticipate he will be advised that he cannot be stopped from having a relationship with your daughter by a social worker in the absence of a court order. Neither of them have signed an agreement either.
It seems to me that the L.A don't have sufficient grounds for an order but if the sw is prepared to conduct the case unlawfully and give misleading evidence ( what do you think?) , the court might grant one.
You should get advice from other grandparents.
All the signs are that you are correct. The question is what can you do about it?
The problem is that the Police referral gave the sw's reason to get involved ,as Suzie says.
Tell your daughter to contact womens aid to arrange for advocacy immediately and tell her not to sign anything. If they have arranged a PLO meeting before even holding a cpc, that does not sound like the correct order of procedure. She needs an advocate and should raise the point with a solicitor.
She should make a note of everything and say nothing to the sw's (unless they conduct the case properly). As Suzie says, they will say she is uncooperative and unable to work with the department but read Heartbrokenfather's thread and you will see where cooperation has got him.
Suzie may well advise cooperation and there is a lot to be said for that. You can ask for other advice from others aswell. Send a letter to the Prime Minister and you will probably be advised that if the case isn't being conducted properly to the guidelines, the only remedy is an appeal to a court able to overrule the CS.You might p.m. Heartbrokenfather and ask him.
If your daughter gets a solicitor , he or she will probably advise her to cooperate no matter what the prime minister's office advises. Some parents and self-help groups will advise the couple to flee from the CS jurisdiction!
Whether to call their bluff or not, that is the question! I can only advise that she says the absolute minimum and not to give them the rope with which to hang her baby! Also to be very careful which solicitor she chooses.If your daughter's partner (Dad) telephones the FRG helpline,I anticipate he will be advised that he cannot be stopped from having a relationship with your daughter by a social worker in the absence of a court order. Neither of them have signed an agreement either.
It seems to me that the L.A don't have sufficient grounds for an order but if the sw is prepared to conduct the case unlawfully and give misleading evidence ( what do you think?) , the court might grant one.
You should get advice from other grandparents.
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
Dear DVsurvivor,
Thanks for your reply. I am glad that your daughter’s partner does not appear to have been domestically abusive during the last 7 years. However, it is possible that he is abusive now that your daughter is pregnant. Research shows that the risk of domestic violence increases when a woman is pregnant.
Until he is risk assessed-children services will not know him like you do. They will only see the police referral, his quite frightening behaviour-(punching the wall) and how vulnerable your daughter and baby will be. They may think that he behaves like this and worse all the time-behind closed doors.
You have also added that he refused to let your daughter leave. Children services will be very worried about him controlling your daughter in that way. They will also want to know why he allowed his medication to run out-if it affects his mood in this way.
Only by him cooperating with an assessment will they come to understand him better. If there are concerns, they are expected to offer him the support he needs. However, if he does not cooperate-they have no choice but to assume the worse. No risk can be taken with babies and potential domestic violence.
If children can’t stay with parents because it is not safe for them then they should be placed with family or friends or people who are connected before strangers.
You are worried about baby being adopted. However, adoption is the last resort. Adoption should only take place if nothing else will do.
Do you know whether children services are considering a family group conference or family meeting? This is where the family themselves decide what support they can offer to reduce any risk. They are also often used to find family and friends who could care for a child.
Children services must prioritise placing children with family and friends before strangers. Any family member or friend would need to show that they can put baby’s need for protection against the parents needs.
As ange says, can your daughter or partner call the advice line on 0808 801 0366 for advice?
Best wishes,
Suzie
Thanks for your reply. I am glad that your daughter’s partner does not appear to have been domestically abusive during the last 7 years. However, it is possible that he is abusive now that your daughter is pregnant. Research shows that the risk of domestic violence increases when a woman is pregnant.
Until he is risk assessed-children services will not know him like you do. They will only see the police referral, his quite frightening behaviour-(punching the wall) and how vulnerable your daughter and baby will be. They may think that he behaves like this and worse all the time-behind closed doors.
You have also added that he refused to let your daughter leave. Children services will be very worried about him controlling your daughter in that way. They will also want to know why he allowed his medication to run out-if it affects his mood in this way.
Only by him cooperating with an assessment will they come to understand him better. If there are concerns, they are expected to offer him the support he needs. However, if he does not cooperate-they have no choice but to assume the worse. No risk can be taken with babies and potential domestic violence.
If children can’t stay with parents because it is not safe for them then they should be placed with family or friends or people who are connected before strangers.
You are worried about baby being adopted. However, adoption is the last resort. Adoption should only take place if nothing else will do.
Do you know whether children services are considering a family group conference or family meeting? This is where the family themselves decide what support they can offer to reduce any risk. They are also often used to find family and friends who could care for a child.
Children services must prioritise placing children with family and friends before strangers. Any family member or friend would need to show that they can put baby’s need for protection against the parents needs.
As ange says, can your daughter or partner call the advice line on 0808 801 0366 for advice?
Best wishes,
Suzie
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dvsurvivor
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:57 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
Had PLO. Not a good out come. They already have a plan and have started legal proceedings. They said she can have her baby in a high security hospital and stay in their until they apply to court which they planning to do as soon as baby is born. Then they applying to court to get baby. How barbaric are they please we are desperate what can we do
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dvsurvivor
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:57 pm
Re: my unborn granchild coming under CP
I cannot sleep am worried sick, so upset. That the local authority are planning a forced adoption. And a forced punishment without any crime. They have no evidence what so ever. Its all based on lies and probabilities. No facts what so ever. I feel sick to the core about all of this. Please what can we do to prevent this from happening?
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