Need a bit of advice.

[bounceyone]

Hi, I need some advice.

I have been fighting now for over 9 years to have my children home!
My eldest was nearly 6 and my son was 2 and a half when i went down to Social Services to ask for help and advice regarding my ex who threatened to stab me and to slash my throat infront of my children. I did ask my mother if i could stay there and she told me no.. When i went down to social services they told me " I was not in an emergency situation therefore they could not help me " So i went back to my mother and then i rang my sister who lived 90 miles away and agreed to take them there for safety so if my ex did stab me ( which he had done in the past ) then it wasn't infront of my children.

While they were at my sisters i spent 3 days there.. 3 days at my own house and 1 day travelling there and back ( its 4 and a half hours on the coach from where i lived ) Then one day i got a phone call from Social Services asking where my kids where. I told them that they are safe no thanks to them and i put the phone down. They then harrassed me on the phone constantly asking where they were. One of the times i even put my eldest on who was talking to her while my son was singing twinkle twinkle to her on the phone. However she was not satisified with this and demanded where they were. So i told her they were down at my sisters in yorkshire. She then managed to get a number for my sister and told her to put a prohibited steps order on me! I still do this day do not at all know why as i had never ever had social services involved at this point.

A few weeks passed with more calls from social services having a go at me for moving them and not asking them for help ( yet i did go and ask them for help and even told them where i went to and what the receptionist looked like ) In the end my sister couldn't cope and asked me to go and pick my eldest and my son up. So i travelled up to collect them and brought them back home.

I had my children a grand total of 4 weeks before social services showed up at my door and demanded that they go to my mothers for " a few days " so i went with them to my mothers and started to get my children ready for bed ( as they had a bedroom at my mums cause they used to stay there on a Tuesday/Wednesday when my mother was off work ) Next thing i know the police was removing me from my mothers house and that was that.

Next day or so i had social services trying to pull me in for meetings and stuff which i refused to go to any meetings unless i had someone on my side with me and they refused to let anyone come with me! Yes refused. I demanded my children back they refused. They even refused to let me have contact with my children. I even watched my mother double back in her tracks to go back past me with my son smirking ... needless to say i nearly took her damn head off her shoulders with abuse for her sly trick. I also watched my mother hit my eldest daughter across the head because my daughter had seen me in the street and wanted to see me. Then she slated me off to family because apparently i have to tell people when i go to town which well is complete and utter crap.
When we went to court i had no one at all on my side. I had a solicitor who didn't even want to be there never mind fight in my corner. I had an ex, mother and sister who were all in it together ( my sister had her son taken off her and placed into my care after she was evicted out of her house for having constant parties and well annoying her neighbours. at one point i wasn't even able to stay in my own house because all of her stuff was there and had to uproot my children for her sake. As for my ex, My mother asked me to split with my current partner to get back with my ex because he's " the children's dad " sorry but not ever doing that one not when he used to batter me on a daily basis and the police were hardly involved in it and the ex.. erm defo not ) My ex was showing up at my house 4/5 times a week with a knife and when i contacted the police they wouldn't do anything because my ex's mother would say he was there dispite i had it recorded on CCTV from outside my house. Nothing at all was done.

So i moved 120 miles away from all my family and friends there was just me and my partner around here. They sent me for a Psychological Assessment it took me over 3 hours from where i lived on the train to get to where the psychological assessment was ( i had to phone them because 2 buses had the same number but went to different places ) The person i spoke to gave me loads of attitude on the phone so naturally my back was up when i went in. The lady who did the assessment was rude and obnoxious so naturally i did the same back. She said i had Borderline Personality Disorder and that i couldn't maintain a relationship and stuff... I never laughed so hard when i read it but at that point basically i was screwed.. I still had no contact with my kids and what good relationship i had with my mother diminished alot.

Needless to say i lost my court case and my mother was awarded a Special Gardianship Order. But by this point again any relationship i had with my mother was gone. I completely detested her ( i detest her more now than i did then )
Then in 2008 i fell pregnant with my youngest, I went to the doctors about it and then was told by the doctor that she has to inform social services because it was apparently on my doctors records that apparently i had been done for neglect of my kids.. I have never ever been done for neglect never even seen a police officer about it and nothing on my CRB either. So again Social Services was involved. The social worker was well a general annoying so and so she started demanding that i stop doing things ( like going on Facebook, playing World of Warcraft and even to sell my horses ) So i sold my horse, but didn't stop playing wow or going on Facebook.. They were just logged out and the computer turned off when she came so she knew no difference. They decided that we would have to go to my partners mothers house when our youngest daughter was born. I asked repeatly for a family unit instead of my partners mothers.. Both of us were denied this. When our youngest was born it was pretty traumantic. She was born in the toilet on the ward and not in delivery suite dispite i told them that once contractions had gone to my legs then i had to go to delivery suite.. I was basically told that it was prosten pains. They wouldn't listen to me when i explained that i have 2 other children and both of their labours went the same way. I had anti natal depression and following her birth i also had post natal depression ( still have that now over 5 years on ) So we were told that we were at my partners mothers house for 4 weeks then we could go home with our daughter. How wrong they were. They went me to a mum and baby group with my daughter near to where i live not near where my partners mother lives. I was not ever allowed to be on my own with my daughter and was made to feel like i was some kind of monster. I wasn't even allowed to go on the bus on my own with her. In the end his mother wound me up for 3 days straight so i snapped.. I told her she needed a slap i would do it but i'm not like that and i'd get someone to do it for me and i walked out of the room. Next thing i know i was asked to leave her house and go back home. So i went home without my daughter or partner I lasted 6 weeks in his mothers house. So i got to see my daughter once a week at that point at the mothers and toddlers group! Then they sent me to a contact centre to see my daughter along with my partner and yet my partner was not allowed to see me or talk to me when he was staying at his mothers house and Social services had told him this!

So already feeling more alone i felt even more alone. In the end my partners mother turned her aggression onto my partner so my partner then left and came back home. We then started to have contact in a contact centre 3 times a week and if we were even 2 mins late due to traffic then we had our contact taken. ( we live in a busy city so even leaving an hour earlier we would even end up late ) so in the end we were getting taxi's there to make sure we were there on time. Then i started being sick with the stress from the social worker .. So because i was being sick on a daily basis i wasn't allowed to go to contact for 24 hours after the sickness had stopped. In the end they stopped my contact because i couldn't go because i was constantly sick because of the stress ( i even had a letter off the doctor saying it was from stress but they wouldn't accept it ! )
In the end i also lost this court case.. which also i suppose didn't help that my solictor and my social worker were friends who went out drinking on a weekend!
During all of this i went to the doctors repeatly and asked them to transfer me to the mental health team so i could be reassessed. 99% of the time they declined me this. The 2 times i actually finally did get transferred one of them was from the Crisis Team who said cause i wasn't in a crisis she wouldn't help me at all. The last one which i seen only within the last 2 weeks has actually said i do not have Borderline Personality Disorder but i do have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from being sexually abused as a child and that social services have not made this any easier but made it actually worse ( i had no bond at all with my younger child because of social services ) So once i found this out naturally i contacted social services, ( they sent my friends letters telling them that if they were friends with me then they would remove their own children from their care for being friends with me which in again secluded me )
Now they know they have screwed up ( They removed my children on the basis that i would " neglect " them not that i was done for neglect due to Borderline Personality Disorder ) and now that i have proven that they are wrong they have admitted on the phone they have screwed up but not to the extreme that they have. The ones who removed my youngest daughter failed to even retest me when i asked, But now what can i do. Not only did social services screw up my life but they screwed up my children's too! Social services said they would help me in any way possible but then when they rang back they then said they would not help me at all in getting my children back as i would have to go back to court for that ( yet its social services that hold the keys to the special guardianship orders not the courts ) but they would take it all off the system so if i decided i would have another child then they have nothing at all on me! but i do not trust them at all and frankly i wan't them to pay for everything they have done to not just myself but my partner and my children.

So help please.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear bounceyone

Welcome to Family Rights Group’s Parents’ Discussion Forum.

My name is Suzie and I am an Adviser at Family Rights Group.

I am so sorry that you have had such a difficult time from being in an abusive relationship and the way you were treated once you asked for help. It must also be very upsetting for you to have lost care of your children.

Having read what you say happened when Children Services were involved and your refusal to engage and attend meetings meant that you would be seen as uncooperative and unable to work with professionals. In this regard, I am afraid you do have to take some responsibility as it would have helped if you worked with Children Services. However, the fact that you wanted help in what was clearly a worrying and scary time for you and your children; you should have been helped to keep yourself and your children safe.

Unfortunately, you say your family was less than supportive of you through the process. Your older children are with your mother under a Special Guardianship Order which means they have remained with family rather than living with strangers. It is not clear where your youngest child was placed. Do you still have contact with your children now? If not, you may want to consider making an application to the court for a child arrangement order so that you can see your children. You can obtain further information about this from Coram Children's Legal Centre on 0808 802 0008

It is clear that you feel very let down by the court process and the decisions made by children services about your children in the first place. As far as neglect is concerned, you do not have to be charged by the police for children services to be concerned about neglect.

Neglect

Neglect is the continuing failure to meet a child’s basic physical and psychological needs. It can be caused by a wide range of things, including for example:
• a mother misusing drugs during her pregnancy; or once the child is born,
• failure to provide a child with
o Adequate food, clothing or shelter
o Protection from physical and emotional harm or danger
o Adequate supervision
o Access to adequate medical care
o Protection from neglect by another person

From your post your lack of support and isolation has had a detrimental effect on your mental health. You may wish to contact Mind or Rethink for support.

As you were a victim of domestic violence it might be helpful for you to contact Womens Aid on 0808 200 0247 to get advice and support which will probably help you to deal with your feelings around the situation.

You have had a recent diagnosis of Post traumatic stress disorder due to the sexual abuse you suffered as a child. It is not clear what help you are receiving as a survivor of childhood sex abuse and you may find it helpful to contact NAPAC on 0808 801 0331 who provides assistance for adults who experienced abuse.

Special Guardianship Order

If you wish to apply to the court to discharge the Special Guardianship Order in favour of your mother this may prove difficult as your children have been settled in her care for a substantial period. The court would have to be satisfied that it would be in the children’s best interests to return to your care. The child’s welfare will be the court’s paramount consideration when deciding where the children should live. I have included a copy of our advice sheet which explains what it means for birth parents when there is a Special Guardianship Order.

Children Services are not able to remove the children from your mother’s care unless they were concerned about the care they are receiving or at risk of significant harm. They would need a court order to remove the children if your mother did not consent as she has parental responsibility for the children.

Regarding a further pregnancy, it is difficult to say what would happen. However, if Children Services had concerns about your ability to care for a baby they would have to look at your situation at the time. A parenting assessment would need to be done. They could decide to carry our child protection investigation if they had concerns about your ability to care of that your child would suffer significant harm. A copy of our advice sheet on child protection procedure is included for your information.

If you feel that Children Services acted wrongly, you can consider using their complaints procedure and a copy of our advice sheet is included here. Alternatively, you could seek advice from a solicitor whether you would have a case to make a claim for compensation. Having copies of the records held by Children Services may assist you in making a decision about this. A copy of our advice sheet is here for your information.

I hope you will find this information helpful but if you would like to speak with an Adviser, please feel free to telephone our free advice line on 0808 801 0366. The Advice line is open from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m. Monday to Friday.

Best wishes,

Suzie

[bounceyone]

Hi and thanks for the reply.

I tried to work with them on a number of occasions but well they refused to work with me properly.
When i phoned them on 13th febuary they have admitted fault already, i can prove my mothers care is not a good one ( my upbringing shows that one ) also witnessing hitting my child across the head is also the main thing too.
I do remember them saying that my mother is also not the best suited person to look after my children. My youngest is with my partners mother.

My mother failed to protect me as a child its obvious she will do the same. I even had my health visitor back me up. Yes its taken so long but the reasons was cause i wanted to prove they were wrong via the joke of a psychological assessment.

[bounceyone]

Hey again.. well things have changed a lot now.

My eldest daughter contacted myself out of the blue and now rings me every day where as my son is not interested at all.

My daughter has now told my mother she wants proper contact now with myself. School and my mother have both seen a good change in my daughter since she has been talking to me on the phone.

However my mother actually rang the social services yesterday and she was told by them something completely different to what I was told. I was told that it is possible to change the special guardianship that she has to include physical contact ( since my mum wouldn't even let me have phone calls with my daughter until recently ! )

However my mother has mentioned it to someone who I used to hang around with as a kid who my mum is good friends with and she has said to my mother it can't be changed and has even said to my daughter that apparently I'm a waste of space ( this lass has not seen me in easy 18/19 years and doesn't understand that stuff can change which is the same with my mum she don't understand that either that people can change in 9 years !

Now the social services where I live actually generally seem like they want to help where as the social services where my children live don't.
( sorry for this being long winded I'm trying to make sure I don't miss anything out )

Anyways I've been told that it has to go through court and there's still a chance that still can't get to see my daughter ( I'm not forcing my son to see me as I think that would be shocking on my son and naturally I only want what's best for him !)

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear bounceyone,

Things have certainly changed since last time you posted.

You are having a lot of telephone contact with your daughter and she has asked to have direct contact with you. How old is she? From my calculations she must be a teenager now. So her wishes and feeling may carry a lot of weight.

Was a contact order made at the same time that the special guardianship order was made?

A special guardianship order is a private law order giving your mum enhanced parental responsibility. This means that she can make most of the decisions about your daughters’ upbringing without needing to get your consent or needing the permission of children services. Children services will not be involved unless they are providing support.
This applies to what contact your daughter has with you as well.
If you disagreed with any decisions that your mum was making then you have the right to ask the court to make a decision.
Because your daughter has only recently started having contact with you via the telephone, your mum may be worried about moving onto face to face without having support from children services-in case things do not go as planned.

I think there are 2 ways forward:

1) You and/ or grandma contacting children services (in writing) and asking for an assessment to support contact under the special guardianship regulations.

See page 39 onwards of our advice sheet for special guardians .

2) You could seek a Child arrangements order (contact order) from the court. See pages 6, 13 to 14 of our advice sheet for parents about special guardianship orders .

Family Rights Group did research, Managing Contact about what helps to promote contact between parents and children when children are placed with family and friends.

I hope this helps but please post back if you have any questions and to let us know how everything is going.

Best wishes,

Suzie


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