Advice on type of care

[Har1Her1]

Hello,

I am a frequent poster on this forum, mainly because our situation is not really improving. I am pretty sure my youngest son will have to be removed from my husband's care. The lead social worker has said that he has had a talk with the 'legal team' and I suppose this means the local authority will apply for a court order to remove my son if we (parents) do not allow him to go under a voluntary arrangement. The options that may be considered (and these are only being talked about at the moment) are:

1: My son goes to a specialised boarding school as a weekly boarder and returns to my care at weekends/holidays. This would give my son access to education and social contact (two things he is missing now) and get him away from the volatile life with my husband. This is my first choice because it places focus on education rather than removal from family and my son may feel less like he is being rejected.

or

2: my son is placed with a foster family in the hope that a more positive environment will enable him to make friends and return to school. (I feel this is less acceptable because it almost forces me to choose between looking after my disabled son (who cannot live with his brother on a permanent basis) and my younger son.



I really want to argue for option 1. What is the best way of getting my voice heard?

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Har1Her1,

I can see things may be moving towards more children services involvement.
The lead social worker has said that he has spoken to his legal department. However, this does not mean that there will be care proceedings.

Do you know what the outcome of the legal planning meeting was? Was a decision made to take care proceedings if you and dad did not agree to accommodation?

If legal proceedings are being considered, you could ask whether they are following the pre proceedings protocol also called public law outline (PLO)? The aim of this process is to avoid going to court.

Under this protocol, the local authority could issue you with a letter that would entitle you to free legal advice. This would be your opportunity to instruct a solicitor who specialises in children law but who also has experience of challenging decisions that have been made about support for disabled children.

Our advice sheet about care proceedings deals with the pre proceeding process.
You can find a solicitor on the search facility at the Law Society .

Do you know what dad’s view is about your son being accommodated? He has parental responsibility as well as you, so he could remove your son from accommodation even if you agreed to it. Children services will want him to be on board with plans as well.

Which type of placement?

Before your child goes into care, children services should assess your child’s needs before (or as soon as possible after) he goes into the care system. This is to make sure that any plan will actually meet his needs. The assessment will include assessments by health and education.

Have a look at our advice sheet about Duties to children in the care system for more information about the assessment.

Have you any idea which residential placement is being considered? You could have a look at the prospectus to see what they offer and how this might match with your sons educational and health needs as well.
Do you need to gather any more assessments to help argue for a residential placement, if you think that would be the better one to meet your sons needs?
As a parent you will be involved in the decision making so will be visiting any residential placement that is being considered.

Ultimately, children’s services should be looking at a placement that would meet all your sons needs. If a specialist foster care placement could do this, this may be the first option as the law says children should be first placed in foster care before a children home unless it is not in the welfare of the child.

The cost of a residential may well be met, not only by children services but by education and the local health authority. The downside is funding may have to be agreed between the different authorities so make take longer. The upside is the cost will be shared.

Have you been in touch with Contact a Family? They specialise in advising families with disabled children. They may be able to guide you in this process.

I hope these few pointers help. Please post back if you have any questions or need further advice.

Best wishes,

Suzie
.

[Har1Her1]

Hello Suzie,

Thank you for your reply it is very helpful. I do not know what the outcome of the 'legal team' meeting will be. I think the application is still being considered. Our social worker has told me that the residential school placement is not an option because my son has not got an Education, Health and Care plan. I want to help move things forward and, if possible at all, I want to keep my youngest son out of the care system.

However, I do not know how effectively I can do this. My eldest son and I have moved to the small town where my husband and younger son reside. We planed this so that I could more actively co-parent my youngest son. Previously, my eldest son and I were homeless (lodging with my sister) and my sister had placed restrictions on my husband and younger sons' visits (e.g. they were not allowed on my sister's property). The restrictions had been placed so that my eldest son could see his aunt's house as a place of sanctuary because we came there under a Child Protection Plan in which my husband and younger son were perpetrators of abuse against my older, disabled, son. The situation is complex because my youngest son was also a recipient of abuse from his father (my husband).

Now my husband is saying, vociferously and frequently, that he cannot cope with my youngest son and that he has hit him (never hard). The incidents of physical assault have been verified by my younger son and once by me. My youngest son is also refusing to engage with the home tutor and with outreach support who come to his house.

I want to offer my younger son some sanctuary and I want to arrange for home tuition to take place at my house (my youngest son says he will engage here). Yet, I also want to ensure that my eldest son is kept safe and that his wishes are respected (he has terrific mental health issues at the moment).

Yet, I feel a little let down by services who are supposed to support us. My eldest son has autism (Asperger's syndrome) and the move to a new house in an area he does not know, has been extremely stressful for him. For several weeks prior to the move he has been unable to enter public places (shops, cafes etc) and now he hardly leaves the house. He hears voices and has hallucinations when he is stressed and shortly before we moved I found him screaming in the greenhouse at my sister's home, with a kitchen knife and a bottle of bleach in a bag. He said he was going to act on his thoughts (which he has told me and which are horrific). CAMHS are very concerned and his psychologist visits on a weekly basis and communicates with him via notes passed under his bedroom door. But, apart from the psychologist's help, we have had no support at all from CSC to help my son cope with the move. The lead social worker came to the house. My son hid from him and he left after looking at the bedroom. That was it! I asked for wrap around support and I had hoped that would include support for my younger son when he visited!

Now, my husband drops my youngest off at our house for two hours every morning and for two hours every evening. I have to supervise my eldest on a 1:1 basis and he likes to stay in his bedroom. However, I have to supervise my youngest and keep him out of my eldest son's bedroom! My youngest son wants to help his brother, but he is intense and controlling (due to his own anxiety) and it makes my eldest son worse. Yet we have no outreach, no support from social care and even though I have told them exactly what is happening, no-one has been to see us or check that things are OK.

Ironically, the lead social worker responded to one of my phone calls by saying that CAMHS are very concerned about my eldest son and they would like to do a risk assessment on our home. I told him it was a bit late because we were already in our house and I sent him a plan of how I would keep my 16 year old, 12 stone, six foot son and his slightly smaller 14 year old brother safe. The lead social worker also wants to meet at some time this week to discuss how to keep the boys safe when they are together with me. But they are already meeting, frequently and intensely!

I know this has turned into a rant. However, I really want to keep my youngest out of care, but I cannot do it on my own. It is almost as if CSC are just watching as we create a situation that has the potential to end in disaster and then they will tell me I failed to keep my children safe.

But the risk is so great. With sufficient support e.g. outreach taking my youngest out or someone staying with my eldest and so on, we could possibly have something that works and allows my children to gradually re-engage with society and break the intense and unhealthy dynamic between them. However, it requires support every day and it requires people to be prepared to sit behind a door and talk to each child and to keep coming even when they do not engage. We have not seen an outreach worker for my eldest for weeks now. Without the support, there is a risk that one of my children will be seriously hurt physically or emotionally.

In my previous threads I have related how our family is being let down by Children's Social care and I think this is another instance. However, it is affecting me tremendously. I feel they just do not care about my children, probably because they are older and a bit challenging. I am so upset by it all.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Har1 Her1,

I can see how difficult it must be to manage things are at the moment particularly as things seem very changeable. It almost feels that no one is keeping up and you are left to manage things unsupported. As you say, the risks to your children seem very high.

I am glad that CAHMS want to do an urgent (although late) risk assessment. You outline your son’s risky behaviour and it seems potentially very dangerous to himself and others. With his stress levels being so high (that he is hearing voices and hearing hallucinations) his care plan may need to be updated.

Young Minds have a parents helpline as well as information and support on their website. You could check that your son is getting all the support for his mental health he needs.

You make a good case on the parent’s forum for support. It needs to get through to the social worker.


Have children services prepared a chronology listing all the risky things that have happened? Then new events will be put in that context. If not, you could prepare a concise chronology of what has happened. (it could be used as a basis for a complaint or if you contact a senior manager.)

What about the allegations of physical abuse against dad? How were they dealt with? Was there a joint investigation? What was the outcome of the investigation?
Are you keeping a diary listing the times you have requested support? Have you indicated the type of support that would be helpful?

Hopefully, the social workers assessment, this week, of what’s needed to keep your sons safe might result in more support.

If it doesn’t then you could take matters further (with a chronology) to a senior manager or challenge by way of complaint.
Here is our advice sheet about
complaints . The advice sheet also sets out how you can contact your MP or local counsellor.

.
Other ways forward could be:

• Is there anything on the child protection plan that helps and has not yet been implemented? Are you attending core group meetings?

• What are other professionals saying about your children’s support needs?

• Getting in touch with a solicitor who to pursue a support package.


Given your oldest son is 16, I wanted to clarify some advice I gave in my last post.

In respect of who can consent to section 20 Children Act accommodation, once a child reaches 16 then a child can consent, or not, to accommodation. Parents no longer have this legal right when a child reaches 16. (Although their support is often crucial).

In respect of children services taking care proceedings, then the court can only make a care order on a child who is younger than 17 (or younger than 16 if a child is married). So your son’s age may mean that children services do not include him in any care application and they will require him to be in agreement, if they offer him accommodation in foster care (or a residential placement).

What about your sons views being heard? At the moment professionals are assessing him through closed doors. You could contact NYAS (National Youth Advocacy Service) . They may have advocacy support in your area. Or ask the social worker about advocacy.


I can see that you understandably very effected by the lack of support that is being given to your family. You need to let the social worker known this. He should include it as part of his assessment.
Or you could ask for a Family Group Conference to see what support might be available in your network.

You need to look after yourself. As well as the helpful tips on young minds website about taking care of yourself, you could also look at Carers UK might have further advice and support. Or could you contact your GP for support?
I hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Suzie

[Har1Her1]

Hello,

The lead social worker told me today that his managers have 'approved' his application for a foster placement for my youngest son for an initial three months. He has said that he is now trying to find an appropriate foster family for my son.

I am really quite upset. As I said before, I have moved to a strange town with my eldest son so that I could try to co-parent my youngest son. However, we have had no real support from Children's Social Care to make this work. Now, the lead social worker has told me not to mention anything about the potential fostering arrangement to my son because he might 'kick off'. I asked the social worker if my son would be introduced to his foster family before he went there and he said he did not know. I also asked where my son's placement might be and whether he could guarantee that my son would be within easy contact distance for me (I do not drive) and he said he could not guarantee this. We live in a very large county so I am worried that my son will be placed miles away.

So, now my son comes to visit me and he talks about Christmas and his pet fish and he has agreed to see his CAMHS worker at my house and to see his home tutor here and although there are issues (as detailed above), there are factors that can be seen as improvement as well. Yet, all the time I have to keep to myself the knowledge that he is going to be sent away and that this could be sudden and it may be at the other side of the county.

I have asked if any other family members could take care of my eldest son and they have said no. But if support was put in to help look after my eldest, perhaps the risks to the boys would be reduced. My husband is very unlikely to oppose any fostering arrangement. He has said explicitly that he cannot cope and social services know he hits my son.

Suzie, please could you tell me if the approval for fostering means that it is inevitable that the placement will be arranged or is there a chance that if I can prove my son is making progress with my co-parenting and the risk posed by the two boys being together can be reduced (e.g. through extra support being found for each or either boy) could foster placement be avoided even at this stage?

I am feeling very low and desperate at the moment, I have given up my job, my home and my dignity so that I could care for my sons and now one is about to be taken into care and the other is on the edge of hospitalisation. Due to his condition, my husband does not really see how his actions have contributed to the situation, but even despite this, he has not had the support he needed to manage my youngest son's anxiety and I certainly feel let down by the services that were designed to protect vulnerable families. Perhaps most significantly, due to the emotional impact, I feel the way this potential fostering is being handled is cruel. I am being encouraged to deceive my youngest child at a time when his trust and faith in me is growing. He thinks I have moved to be closer to him and to help him cope with his Dad. He believes now that I love him as much as his brother. Yet, all the time, I know plans are being made to send him away.

Is there anything I can do to make this better?

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Har1her1,

As I understand it, children services are looking to accommodate your son. This means him going into foster care with your consent not by a court order.
You still retain the ability to negotiate.

It may not be inevitable that your son will go into care although it seems that given what is happening to your son-the abuse at the hands of dad, it seems to be the best and safest option at this point in time.

All the questions that you ask in your post about the foster placement, you should ask the social worker.

When children are found placements then the local authority need to follow the law that governs this. For example the Care Planning, Placement and Case Review Regulations 2010. The advice sheet, duties to children in the care system that I referred you to is a helpful guide. have a look at this.

The social worker should assess your child’s needs before (or as soon as possible after) he goes into the care system. This is to make sure that any plan for his care will actually meet his needs. So have you asked the social worker to re assess the quality of contact you have with your son.
Stress the importance of contact for your son’s well-being. How will your contact with your son continue to be supported and promoted by children’s services?
Would your son understand that he is not being removed from you but it is his father who is not coping? Given your son is 14, how are they taking into account his wishes and feelings?

Best wishes,

Suzie

[Har1Her1]

Hello,

The situation is continuing. Just over a week ago there was a meeting chaired by CAMHS to plan provision and support for my eldest son. It is a meeting I had requested because I know he needs continuous support from a range of services to help him to re-engage and to manage his mental health. Unfortunately I could not attend because my son ran off on the Saturday before the meeting and I could not leave him in anyone else's care because he was still highly anxious. Apparently, 2 hours of outreach a week have been arranged and 2 hours of Family Intervention Team support and CAMHS will visit once a fortnight, but phone on a regular basis. My younger son will continue to have his 5 hours of tuition at my house and I will take him to his weekly CAMHS appointment (if I can arrange care for my eldest when this takes place).

In reality, we have had 15 minutes of outreach this week, which comprised the lead outreach worker communicating via notes under the toilet door. One substantial visit from CAMHS (which was very helpful) and a ten minute visit from the FIT worker who left because my son wouldn't write a note for her. My youngest had his outreach from his fathers home and locked himself in the bathroom to avoid it but he co-operated with education (at my house) and he went to his CAMHS appointment whilst my sister looked after my eldest.

My observation of the outreach and FIT workers is that they are out of their depth with my eldest son. I feel his needs are not so much Child Protection related as mental health based and this is reflected by the greater success CAMHS have with him. My youngest son is co-operating a little more, but it is so very slow.

I feel as though, as a family, we have been through Hell and back and really I cannot see a truly happy ending. If my eldest recovers his health enough to go into shops , males one or two friends and perhaps attends a supported course at college next year, I will be satisfied and if my youngest stays out of care and attends some sort of education or training and makes a few friends, I will be happy. However, I do not see how CSC will help with this. The support they provide is superficial and I feel like I am constantly being judged an found inadequate. It is a shame, because once I really believed in Children's Services and I could not understand why people complained so much about them. However, I feel so let down by them, and worse still, I feel both my children have been failed and mislead by them.

[Har1Her1]

I really apologise for breaking protocols and continuously adding to my own thread. However, the situation is developing strangely and rapidly. The edge of care support worker who has started to communicate under the bedroom door with my son and the Family Intervention Team worker, who also passes notes under my son's door, gave my son their work e-mail and asked him to 'talk to them' about how he felt. The result was that my son sent each support worker an e-mail detailing the contents of his intrusive thoughts and the voices he hears. The thoughts pertain to acts of sexual violence and torture amongst other things. The workers forwarded these messages to their managers who became very concerned and, because a specific date was mentioned in the message, informed the police.

CAMHS have held a meeting and they want to do a pre-admission assessment for my son, but this does not mean he will be admitted either voluntarily or under section. The mental health professionals realise that although there is a risk, it is highly unlikely that he will act on these thoughts and he is more likely to be scared and distressed if the police become involved. I think the support workers are careless and unprofessional to ask a disturbed, autistic teenager to send them e-mails about his feelings, especially when they do not know how to respond to the content.

My other son continues to visit on a daily basis and I am still struggling to balance providing the calm low stimulus environment my eldest needs with creating a stimulating environment for my boisterous and angry 14 year old. Yet the services provided are not helping me to create a workable home environment for my children.

For example, yesterday, we had FIVE different workers at our house: two outreach workers who were trying to coax my youngest son to come out with them for a sandwich, even though he had just had lunch and one FIT worker who had come to talk to my eldest because she wasn't allowed to respond electronically to his e-mail! The lead social worker also came to tell me that he had been in touch with the police and my youngest son decided to challenge him about why outreach came in pairs to see him (this was done because my youngest son has made threats to members of social care staff) and my eldest son's psychologist phoned me to see how my son was (he just hid in his bedroom until the visitors had gone). On top of that, the home tutor had just been (thankfully my youngest son actually worked with her).

So, I have decided that the services provided by Children's Social Care really do not know how to respond to my children. They cannot support me appropriately to help my children and when support is sent it is nonsensical and either ineffective or so heavy handed that it does more harm than good. CAMHS are helpful for both boys and the home tuition works.

I know this seems contradictory, but I believe the reason so little support was provided before was that CSC cannot really deal with my eldest son's mental health difficulties and they are reluctant to work with a challenging and difficult to place 14 year old Is it possible for you to give me more specific advice about how to secure the support my sons need? I think my eldest son can be supported by his existing mental health team, but we need mental health related outreach for him; not people who behave in a dangerous and unprofessional way. I think my youngest son needs help from people who know how to relate to teenage boys who do not really trust adults- his trust cannot be gained when people lie to him or when they turn up unexpectedly to initiate irrelevant activities.

I am so tired of this situation.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Har1her1,

I can see how difficult everything is at the moment for you and your sons. When I read your post I can see why you feel tired. Things seem to be changing from day to day and some professionals seem to have a better handle on things that others.
You also seem to have very good insight into what works and what doesn’t. You are managing the situation yourself.

You ask about securing support for your sons. It seems like you are coordinating most of it.

As I understand it, they are both under child protection plans. Have you discussed what is and isn’t working with the social worker?

When are the plans going to be reviewed? What about the support and assessments under the plans? Have they been completed?

What about the plans for accommodation in respect of your younger son? What is happening here?


For your older son, CAHMS have had a meeting and are assessing your son. Have you been advised about timescales and have you suggested the support you might find helpful. If he is engaging with CAHMS-you say there was a fruitful meeting-then hopefully, the risks to your son’s health may go down. I don’t have expertise in mental health support but you could contact Young minds for advice.

What is happening with the plan for accommodation of your youngest son?

What about support for yourself as a carer? You could contact
carers uk for advice.

I think I am asking more questions than I am answering. You could post back with your answers.

You could also contact our advice line for further advice as well.

Best wishes,

Suzie

[Har1Her1]

Hello,

Thank you again for your reply. I hope that the situation calms down sufficiently for me not to feel the need to post every day or so. However, an incident occurred on Friday that disturbed me. The lead social worker had informed the police about my eldest son's messages and his 'plan' to commit a crime. So, at midday on Friday a very assertive police sergeant turned up at my police, accompanied by our social worker. My son, true to form, locked himself in the bathroom. He remained there for seven hours whilst the police sergeant ran up and down the stairs shouting out greetings and questions, phoned the CAMHS team who are treating my son, and blatantly ignored their advice about trying to keep my son calm.

The sergeant stated that she was going to 'get my son the help he needed' which was very admirable, but being holed up in the bathroom for seven hours, threatened with hospital under Section , heavily sedated and being forced screaming and crying into an ambulance, was not what was needed. He needs a clam environment and the opportunity to regulate his emotions.

The CAMS team were not happy that the advice of all people contacted, including the Consultant Psychiatrist in charge of my son, was ignored by the Sergeant and I was very unhappy to see my son so distressed he was physically sick. He went into hospital on a voluntary basis (narrowly missing the Section) so, seeing his levels of distress were still high the next day and knowing that he absconded from hospital 10 times on his previous admission, I asked if I could take him home. This was readily agreed.

Ironically, the experience has frightened my son so much that he now talks to unfamiliar people and he has been out into a shop once or twice. However, he is exhausted. I complained to the local police about the Sergeant's approach.

During the siege on Friday, the lead social worker told me that it is possible that a foster placement will be available on 5th January for my youngest son. I told him that, despite the continuation of some problems, progress has been made by my youngest. For example, he is engaging well with his home tutor and with CAMHS (he sees his psychologist with me) and, if activities were more relevant, he would engage with outreach. However, my husband is not making the situation any easier for my youngest. Yesterday my husband shouted at the FIT worker and accused her of writing defamatory comments in notes from a meeting (she did not even attend the meeting) and he is still leaving messages about my youngest son's aggressive behaviour on the answer machines of various agencies.

I think we really do need a review of the Plan for both my sons. I would like the Plan to be much more specific e.g. stipulating that CAMHS will lead on the provision for my eldest and perhaps detailing the activities that outreach will provide for both boys.

I do have one more question. Yesterday a social worker and the FIT worker came to my house and drew up a 'safety plan' for the family over Christmas. The plan includes statements such as we will eat Christmas lunch at my house so that my eldest son may withdraw to his bedroom if he feels like he needs to calm down; we will not drive away from our small town between 25-29th December (when CSC are short staffed) so that I can walk home with my eldest son if arguments arise in the car. It also states that is my youngest son enters my eldest son's room without permission I am to give him three warnings and then, if he does not act, call the police (who I have just complained about)! The plan is presented as an agreement between individual members of the family and the Local Authority. I can see the sense in most of what the Plan states, and I have signed and agreed it because I feel I have no option. My husband has also signed, although he said it was a waste of paper because there would be no-one around at Christmas time to make sure we stuck to it, but my youngest is enraged. He said (words to the effect of) it was ridiculous that the Local Authority should try to tell us where to eat our Christmas meal and order us not to leave town over Christmas and he asked how many other children faced police intervention if they went into their brother's bedroom. He said there is no way he will sign it.

I am going to speak to my youngest on his own and explain that the Plan is just a way of keeping his older brother safe. However, I realise that if I do not ensure the safety agreement is kept, questions will be raised about my ability to keep my eldest son safe and if my youngest son fails to agree t it, we may have little chance of arguing that we can parent him effectively and his placement on 5th January may be legally enforced.

So, I will keep to the agreement, but please could you tell me if it is likely that someone from CSC will pop in over the Christmas period to see if the plan has been kept? I just feel like I am struggling to try to keep the family together and to keep my children out of care, but the help I am getting is either non-existent, inappropriate or really heavy handed.