SGO CONTACT ISSUES
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:36 pm
Hello
Background our grandchildren have lived with us for 2 years. 1 under SGO, following neglect mum, DV in household both parents and emotional trauma by mum. Dad did not live at the address.
Before SGO was awarded birth father and his family had fortnightly weekend contact which went well and was reliable. During court he agreed to go to one weekend a month to facilitate mother having contact split over two weekends, until such time as she was on a par with dad. He and the family FaceTime the children at least once a week and have a keen interest in their health and schooling. We communicate well both ways on concerns and planning. They have the boys extra in the holidays on request, subject to the boys schedules. The children are always excited to visit and eager to tell us all about it when they get home.
Before SGO contact with mum was sporadic until LA and ourselves began structuring it both at a contact centre with supervision , then in the community with supervision then in contact centre unsupervised and finally in community. Mums sister helped in these transitions. Contact did breakdown several times … most important being threat to not return the children. LA advised us to pause contact until trust could be rebuilt. The SGO states following for contact framework
Week 1 dad weekend contact sat am to sun pm
Week 2 mum 3hrs weekend contact
Week 3 us .. no parental contact (family time)
Week 4 mum 3hrs weekend contact
On weeks mum did not have weekend contact , a 2hr afterschool contact . Mum was to pick up and drop from our home or school addresses.
Contact for mother to be in community or at an agreed location E.g family members home.
To be reviewed by guardians. Mum was warned specifically that any further attempt to disrupt the placement would not be tolerated by judge. We were told by judge we could adjust contact up or down. Dad on the other hand was praised for completing parenting course and establishing reliable contact, including additional FaceTime calls.
(Although it’s not in final order it was noted that it was hoped mums contact would increase over time to become on par with dad I.e. one sat am to sun pm weekend. Guardians would then get two weekends free)
LA and childrens court guardian helped empower us to make decisions on behalf of the children, regarding contact which has been contentious from the start with mum. Children were discharged from CIN shortly after SGO as all boys needs were being met.
One of the children has special educational needs along with physical weaknesses that are being addressed via neurologist, paediatrician, community neurologist disability team, physiotherapy, occupational therapy and a lot of home therapy from us. He has a full time teaching assistant and an EHCP. Both still have triggers associated with their past which manifest in behavioural issues.
Over the last year we have done everything within our power to provide positive parental contact. We have treated both parents equally. ( mum says we favouritise dad and let him do whatever he wants, wherever he wants with who ever he wants but we always know what they are doing and with whom, he lives with his parents so his contact is supervised or supported at all times. They work with us not against us so it works seamlessly) However mum has needed a lot of input on organisation, initiative in planning, arranging activities and she has had another baby in this time. We have had to step in and take boys to and from contact, stay during contact and pay for activities, taken mum on days out, given overnights when she has her sister staying with her. Given extra contact on boys and her birthdays. Invited her for Christmas in our home. Told her she can have the boys this Christmas as long as her sister is there for two nights. Mum does not contact children in between visits and never has pre SGO. At no point has she asked for a review or shown any inclination to plan ahead (still last minute which doesn’t help childrens structure or routine) in fact she was often asking for them to come home early as she had something to do.
Two weeks ago , during school holidays she asked for a complete day 1030 until teatime. We thought this was a good sign and agreed based on plan of picnic at the park, back to her home and McDonald’s tea. She asked to take them to zoo instead. A zoo out of county which is a train,tube and bus away. We said we didn’t feel that was appropriate for her first unsupervised contact in a long time and suggested either of 2 zoos locally within our county by bus. She said the children are bored of them.(unsure how she would know this) as they love both. Then we find out night before she has allegedly booked Out of county Zoo and is taking them with her new boyfriend (children met him once over a year ago, she has since rekindled relationship and he lives with her half the week) we explained again that wasn’t what was agreed and furthermore any new partner needed to be introduced slowly to the boys not a full day. We suggested he be introduced for 15 mins at end of contact the next day and work from there. The boys have attachment/abandonment triggers from mum introducing them to multiple men in the past, being told marriage would happen very shortly afterwards only for that man to disappear again from mums life. This boyfriend is awaiting his entry to army training imminently and so would disappear again. In the end, after a number of arguments she demanded to see them 8-10am and we had to drop and pick them up. She agreed to respect our guidance however my husband took the boys to meet mum at park but she want there. So took boys outside of her home instead. She has since told us the Boyfriend was stood waiting on road. (She has done this before) She made no attempt to take them to the park. The children were then with both for entire visit. She then told my husband she was going on trip anyway hence only 2hrs with boys. She then said she wanted us to reimburse £200 she spent on tickets, even though we gave her number to call to move to another date for Out of countyZoo. We also saw them buy their train tickets so not even sure she had bought tickets ahead of time. We also know Out of county Zoo was priced less than the oddly specific £200. At this point we called her out on the lies about contact, that she had been seen etc and that we no longer had trust in arrangements. That we suggested a contact review meeting to discuss our concerns and to make planned contact schedule to help with childrens schedule (wanted to book afterschool clubs) with both of us. That any increase in contact needed to be planned carefully for the boys. This could be by tel call or in person. Contact was paused until this was in place. We also stated we had no issue with the boyfriend or her private arrangements, as it is the boys we have a duty or care for. We have never been intrusive to her life beyond contact.
We then got into a barage of arguments from her via message. She said we have all the money for boys so should pay for her contact. We have a car so we should pick/drop off to her. We are power playing and playing games with her boys. She has tried to turn close family members on us as well by only telling them parts of the story and not everything, painting herself in a positive light and us negatively. She was their mother and entitled to contact with whoever she wants, whenever she wants and to go wherever she wants. That she was told she would have overnights unsupervised by now, even with new baby. She demanded Thursdays as her afterschool and Sunday nights into Mondays for overnights of which she wanted two weekends (even though she is only supposed to be working towards same as dad) and that would be more than we the family have. Also, we could never agree to Sunday night as we wouldn’t be sure she would get boys to school (she claims she can’t pick up drop from us due to distance and we live ten minutes from their school) She also wanted that at the very least and expected more. She said her social worker was supporting her in taking this to court to revoke the SGO and return them full time to her care. She stated the LA involvement in the new baby was downgraded and her flat was clean and tidy. That her children behave better in her care than with us as all we do is shout at them, live in an untidy, unclean home and slap them in front of screens all the time. (The children have said that mum doesn’t tell them off or set any rules. That when they asked for help toileting she remained in bed and told them to do it themselves, even though one child can’t physically reach his back due to frozen shoulders. We only state this as the children instantly told us on their return, so was obviously a worry for them.) She also stated there was no evidence for the childrens needs (even though we have folders full and have taken both boys to multiple appointments which are ongoing and if she had shown any care of their schooling would know one child has EHCP high level with full time teaching assistant and is held back an academic year on chronological age.) she states we must have lots of money as my husband had recently changed to a part time job after taking redundancy from a full time shift work position due to long covid. Actually this makes our finances very tight, especially in cost of living crisis. I also have long covid with breathing difficulties that are slowly resolving 6 months on but she has seen my lack of presence as me not wanting to have anything to do with her. She is refusing to speak to me ever again even though I am the childrens main carer. Plus, if anything happens to my husband or our marriage ends (her father) the children remain in my care, as agreed with LA, childrens court guardian and barristers. She is unaware of this we believe. This then just kept escalating with more threats, more accusations and an attempt to blackmail my husband over something that had the potential to end our marriage. ( he has discussed with me and we are still together and standing strong as an unit) at this point we decided to draw a line and stop contact entirely as her behaviour had become so erratic and irrational. It was stopped based on her refusal to talk to us productively about forward contact and therefore our mistrust that she would stick to arrangements in the future, following recent contact. However, her sister asked if she could take boys to mini golf the following weekend with mum there in a larger group. We agreed as we were sure arrangements would be as outlined, we have always encouraged wider family contact and felt it was a good compromise. She refused to return the childrens souvenir and favourite hoodies which were accidentally left in pram by auntie. Even when auntie went to her address to collect them. She stated we would get them back when she saw the children. Yet again though we have now been met with when can I see my children?
We’ve again outlined our reasoning that a talk is needed before contact can resume, that we are following SGO, we are treating both parents equally. We’ve even offered to talk to her social worker instead, if she doesn’t want to attend a talk with us both. She flatly refused as she is her social worker. We understood that but were just trying to reach out and compromise. It has become very contentious again, with all the same patterns of behaviour seen pre SGO. At the heart of the matter is she doesn’t accept any responsibility for events that culminated in the children being given into our care by LA., so she doesn’t understand the SGO or it’s relevancy. She therefore doesn’t accept we are enabled to alter contact based on the boys best interests. We’ve tried to explain that we have parental role now and must act in the boys best interests. However we also have a duty of care for them so need to be assured contact arrangements are as they were planned and that she will return them home. Obviously things come up and days may need altering from either side.
Our belief is that she first needs to ask the courts permission to apply to revoke SGO and needs to show a sustained change in circumstances that the judge agrees/disagrees with. We also believe we have done beyond what is outlined in the SGO and enabled as much positive contact as possible(above and beyond SGO contact outline). We believe we have offered every compromise we can think of and are happy to justify our decision in court if required. Do we need to notify LA even though they have no involvement with children or family anymore? We just want to make sure we are covering everything we need to. Every mediation meeting ever held by LA, mediator and so on pre SGO she has either refused to attend or walked out five minutes in as soon as she disagrees. So it’s hard to know how to break the deadlock. Any advice welcome.
Background our grandchildren have lived with us for 2 years. 1 under SGO, following neglect mum, DV in household both parents and emotional trauma by mum. Dad did not live at the address.
Before SGO was awarded birth father and his family had fortnightly weekend contact which went well and was reliable. During court he agreed to go to one weekend a month to facilitate mother having contact split over two weekends, until such time as she was on a par with dad. He and the family FaceTime the children at least once a week and have a keen interest in their health and schooling. We communicate well both ways on concerns and planning. They have the boys extra in the holidays on request, subject to the boys schedules. The children are always excited to visit and eager to tell us all about it when they get home.
Before SGO contact with mum was sporadic until LA and ourselves began structuring it both at a contact centre with supervision , then in the community with supervision then in contact centre unsupervised and finally in community. Mums sister helped in these transitions. Contact did breakdown several times … most important being threat to not return the children. LA advised us to pause contact until trust could be rebuilt. The SGO states following for contact framework
Week 1 dad weekend contact sat am to sun pm
Week 2 mum 3hrs weekend contact
Week 3 us .. no parental contact (family time)
Week 4 mum 3hrs weekend contact
On weeks mum did not have weekend contact , a 2hr afterschool contact . Mum was to pick up and drop from our home or school addresses.
Contact for mother to be in community or at an agreed location E.g family members home.
To be reviewed by guardians. Mum was warned specifically that any further attempt to disrupt the placement would not be tolerated by judge. We were told by judge we could adjust contact up or down. Dad on the other hand was praised for completing parenting course and establishing reliable contact, including additional FaceTime calls.
(Although it’s not in final order it was noted that it was hoped mums contact would increase over time to become on par with dad I.e. one sat am to sun pm weekend. Guardians would then get two weekends free)
LA and childrens court guardian helped empower us to make decisions on behalf of the children, regarding contact which has been contentious from the start with mum. Children were discharged from CIN shortly after SGO as all boys needs were being met.
One of the children has special educational needs along with physical weaknesses that are being addressed via neurologist, paediatrician, community neurologist disability team, physiotherapy, occupational therapy and a lot of home therapy from us. He has a full time teaching assistant and an EHCP. Both still have triggers associated with their past which manifest in behavioural issues.
Over the last year we have done everything within our power to provide positive parental contact. We have treated both parents equally. ( mum says we favouritise dad and let him do whatever he wants, wherever he wants with who ever he wants but we always know what they are doing and with whom, he lives with his parents so his contact is supervised or supported at all times. They work with us not against us so it works seamlessly) However mum has needed a lot of input on organisation, initiative in planning, arranging activities and she has had another baby in this time. We have had to step in and take boys to and from contact, stay during contact and pay for activities, taken mum on days out, given overnights when she has her sister staying with her. Given extra contact on boys and her birthdays. Invited her for Christmas in our home. Told her she can have the boys this Christmas as long as her sister is there for two nights. Mum does not contact children in between visits and never has pre SGO. At no point has she asked for a review or shown any inclination to plan ahead (still last minute which doesn’t help childrens structure or routine) in fact she was often asking for them to come home early as she had something to do.
Two weeks ago , during school holidays she asked for a complete day 1030 until teatime. We thought this was a good sign and agreed based on plan of picnic at the park, back to her home and McDonald’s tea. She asked to take them to zoo instead. A zoo out of county which is a train,tube and bus away. We said we didn’t feel that was appropriate for her first unsupervised contact in a long time and suggested either of 2 zoos locally within our county by bus. She said the children are bored of them.(unsure how she would know this) as they love both. Then we find out night before she has allegedly booked Out of county Zoo and is taking them with her new boyfriend (children met him once over a year ago, she has since rekindled relationship and he lives with her half the week) we explained again that wasn’t what was agreed and furthermore any new partner needed to be introduced slowly to the boys not a full day. We suggested he be introduced for 15 mins at end of contact the next day and work from there. The boys have attachment/abandonment triggers from mum introducing them to multiple men in the past, being told marriage would happen very shortly afterwards only for that man to disappear again from mums life. This boyfriend is awaiting his entry to army training imminently and so would disappear again. In the end, after a number of arguments she demanded to see them 8-10am and we had to drop and pick them up. She agreed to respect our guidance however my husband took the boys to meet mum at park but she want there. So took boys outside of her home instead. She has since told us the Boyfriend was stood waiting on road. (She has done this before) She made no attempt to take them to the park. The children were then with both for entire visit. She then told my husband she was going on trip anyway hence only 2hrs with boys. She then said she wanted us to reimburse £200 she spent on tickets, even though we gave her number to call to move to another date for Out of countyZoo. We also saw them buy their train tickets so not even sure she had bought tickets ahead of time. We also know Out of county Zoo was priced less than the oddly specific £200. At this point we called her out on the lies about contact, that she had been seen etc and that we no longer had trust in arrangements. That we suggested a contact review meeting to discuss our concerns and to make planned contact schedule to help with childrens schedule (wanted to book afterschool clubs) with both of us. That any increase in contact needed to be planned carefully for the boys. This could be by tel call or in person. Contact was paused until this was in place. We also stated we had no issue with the boyfriend or her private arrangements, as it is the boys we have a duty or care for. We have never been intrusive to her life beyond contact.
We then got into a barage of arguments from her via message. She said we have all the money for boys so should pay for her contact. We have a car so we should pick/drop off to her. We are power playing and playing games with her boys. She has tried to turn close family members on us as well by only telling them parts of the story and not everything, painting herself in a positive light and us negatively. She was their mother and entitled to contact with whoever she wants, whenever she wants and to go wherever she wants. That she was told she would have overnights unsupervised by now, even with new baby. She demanded Thursdays as her afterschool and Sunday nights into Mondays for overnights of which she wanted two weekends (even though she is only supposed to be working towards same as dad) and that would be more than we the family have. Also, we could never agree to Sunday night as we wouldn’t be sure she would get boys to school (she claims she can’t pick up drop from us due to distance and we live ten minutes from their school) She also wanted that at the very least and expected more. She said her social worker was supporting her in taking this to court to revoke the SGO and return them full time to her care. She stated the LA involvement in the new baby was downgraded and her flat was clean and tidy. That her children behave better in her care than with us as all we do is shout at them, live in an untidy, unclean home and slap them in front of screens all the time. (The children have said that mum doesn’t tell them off or set any rules. That when they asked for help toileting she remained in bed and told them to do it themselves, even though one child can’t physically reach his back due to frozen shoulders. We only state this as the children instantly told us on their return, so was obviously a worry for them.) She also stated there was no evidence for the childrens needs (even though we have folders full and have taken both boys to multiple appointments which are ongoing and if she had shown any care of their schooling would know one child has EHCP high level with full time teaching assistant and is held back an academic year on chronological age.) she states we must have lots of money as my husband had recently changed to a part time job after taking redundancy from a full time shift work position due to long covid. Actually this makes our finances very tight, especially in cost of living crisis. I also have long covid with breathing difficulties that are slowly resolving 6 months on but she has seen my lack of presence as me not wanting to have anything to do with her. She is refusing to speak to me ever again even though I am the childrens main carer. Plus, if anything happens to my husband or our marriage ends (her father) the children remain in my care, as agreed with LA, childrens court guardian and barristers. She is unaware of this we believe. This then just kept escalating with more threats, more accusations and an attempt to blackmail my husband over something that had the potential to end our marriage. ( he has discussed with me and we are still together and standing strong as an unit) at this point we decided to draw a line and stop contact entirely as her behaviour had become so erratic and irrational. It was stopped based on her refusal to talk to us productively about forward contact and therefore our mistrust that she would stick to arrangements in the future, following recent contact. However, her sister asked if she could take boys to mini golf the following weekend with mum there in a larger group. We agreed as we were sure arrangements would be as outlined, we have always encouraged wider family contact and felt it was a good compromise. She refused to return the childrens souvenir and favourite hoodies which were accidentally left in pram by auntie. Even when auntie went to her address to collect them. She stated we would get them back when she saw the children. Yet again though we have now been met with when can I see my children?
We’ve again outlined our reasoning that a talk is needed before contact can resume, that we are following SGO, we are treating both parents equally. We’ve even offered to talk to her social worker instead, if she doesn’t want to attend a talk with us both. She flatly refused as she is her social worker. We understood that but were just trying to reach out and compromise. It has become very contentious again, with all the same patterns of behaviour seen pre SGO. At the heart of the matter is she doesn’t accept any responsibility for events that culminated in the children being given into our care by LA., so she doesn’t understand the SGO or it’s relevancy. She therefore doesn’t accept we are enabled to alter contact based on the boys best interests. We’ve tried to explain that we have parental role now and must act in the boys best interests. However we also have a duty of care for them so need to be assured contact arrangements are as they were planned and that she will return them home. Obviously things come up and days may need altering from either side.
Our belief is that she first needs to ask the courts permission to apply to revoke SGO and needs to show a sustained change in circumstances that the judge agrees/disagrees with. We also believe we have done beyond what is outlined in the SGO and enabled as much positive contact as possible(above and beyond SGO contact outline). We believe we have offered every compromise we can think of and are happy to justify our decision in court if required. Do we need to notify LA even though they have no involvement with children or family anymore? We just want to make sure we are covering everything we need to. Every mediation meeting ever held by LA, mediator and so on pre SGO she has either refused to attend or walked out five minutes in as soon as she disagrees. So it’s hard to know how to break the deadlock. Any advice welcome.