Family Rights Group | Kinship carers’ Forum

Hi I'm looking for some advise myself and my husband have an sgo for our grandson whom has lived with us since he was basically born and is now nearly 3years old we got the sgo in May 2023 the court also granted an arrangement order with regards to contact with his parents and that was that they see him for 3hours once a fortnight on alternate weeks supervised by us but there was no mention of unsupervised contact all that was said was that the parents had to complete certain courses before we can even consider unsupervised contact well we are a year on since the final court case and the mum has only done 1 of the 3 courses and the dad has done both of his but we still have a lot of safety concerns with both parents and the child isn't coping very well with contact even when supervised. Before the social worker closed the case for our grandson she mentioned to the parents that they will be able to have unsupervised contact and overnight contact in the future starting from around 3years old this has left us panicking as we don't feel it's safe and there was no mention of this in court one of our main concern is keeping our grandson safe as the fathers new partner has lost 2 children to adoption and we were told that under no circumstances is our grandson to be left unsupervised with her by our grandson ex social worker but they wouldn't tell us why so we spoke to the fathers gf who has shared little pieces of information and one of the reasons her children were removed was risk of sexual harm which has sent alarm bells ringing in our heads she said ot was her ex partner but how can we be sure without the full information. Then with regards to our grandsons mother she has told me she is speaking to the man who I've just mentioned whom has been charged with having indecent images of children and also we have been informed that our grandsons mother is doing cocaine again and cannabis when I asked her about this she said she has brought it but not for herself which even is true isn't right as she's still buying drugs off drug dealers so as you can see it's not the best situation for our grandson my question is do we have to allow unsupervised contact with the parents if it wasn't ordered in court ...sorry for the long post

Dear Childrencomefirst

Thank you for your post and welcome to the discussion board. My name is Suzie and I will be replying to you today. I am sorry to hear of your situation, if must be a difficult time for you.

You have a Special Guardianship Order for your grandchild. There is also a Contact Agreement Order in place for her parents. Children’s Service have now closed their file and when doing so, informed the parents that overtime contact can move from supervised to unsupervised. This is a concern to you for the reasons you have outlined above. You are seeking clarification on whether you must allow unsupervised contact with the parents if it was not ordered in court.

A special guardianship order is a court order that says a child will live permanently with someone (who is not their parent) until they are 18. A special guardianship order gives the special guardian ‘exclusive’ parental responsibility for the child. This gives them the authority to take all major decisions about the child’s upbringing and care including whom they have contact with. As special guardians you have parental responsibility to the exception of all others. Therefore, if you do not think it is in the child’s best interest to move from supervised to unsupervised contact then this is your decision to make. Equally, if you feel the child arrangements order is not working you may wish to take the matter back to court to vary the order.

I hope you find this information helpful. Please do contact us again should you need to. Details below:
- post again here.
- Submit a web enquiry.
- Start a webchat, Monday and Wednesday 2pm-4pm.
- Call our free and confidential advice line on 0808 801 0366, Monday to Friday (excluding bank holidays) 9:30am-3pm.
More information and links to our services can be found on our get help and advice page

Best wishes, Suzie

Reposted by Suzie, on behalf of Childrencomefirst, due to a technical glitch:

Hi suzie, I have spoken to you before regarding unsupervised contact for our grandsons parents your reply was very helpful and we decided to not allow unsupervised contact at this time. Our grandson turns 3 in a few weeks and as I said previously we have had him from a baby.

Even though he has contact with mum and dad every two weeks for 3hrs on alternate weeks he is really struggling seeing them. When we say to him your going to see mum/dad tomorrow he shouts no I'm not at us. We say but u will have fun he says no I stay with mummy. He is referring to myself as he has started calling me and my husband mummy and daddy recently, even though we have told him we are his grandparents and he used to call us nanny and grandad he won't call us it anymore.
His parents get very agitated by this we have told them both that his to young at the moment so when his older we can explain it to him, but if his still determined to call us that then that's his decision to make. He also calls his parents mum and dad.

Recently his mum is trying to push us into giving more contact and keeps threatening to take us to court to get her contact increased. The thing is she can't even do a full 3hr contact and regularly cuts contact short and when she does attend contact every other Saturday, which was agreed in court, she spends most of the time texting people on her phone or sitting with myself and she asks my 16yr old daughter to run around with my grandson and says she has more energy than her. She's only 22yrs old so it's more she can't be bothered to play with him.

On numerous occasions she has been texting on her phone and has allowed my grandson to run into a busy carpark or road and she lies to us constantly. She is also still drinking heavily and hangs around with drug users and we have been told she is taking cocaine. She was also told she had to do 3 courses before we could even consider unsupervised contact of which she's only done 1 since court gave us the sgo, which was may 2023. She doesn't seem to be in any rush to do the others. She has also just ended a relationship with a man who threatened to kill my grandsons dad [my son] but is still in contact with him. And we have just found out she met up with [Grandson’s] dad the other weekend despite court saying they shouldn't be around each other. She also tells me she has no money for contact. Most of the time so we find places that cost either very little or are free for her but then the same night she's seen out drinking, and we have actually paid for her contact on a few occasions, only to find out she had the money to go out for the night drinking.

We feel she puts herself first all the time and doesn't prioritise her son and his contact so we are reluctant to give more contact at the moment. Also we have to give dad the same contact so our grandson does a 3hr contact every Saturday which is a lot for him anyway because he still gets tired. He goes to nursery 3 days a week and he has to have a day to get over contact, which even his nursery have remarked on, and have said is there no way we can reduce contact as its not having a positive impact on him.

We also have our own children who we have to find time for in the week so we don't have time to do extra contact to suit the parents especially when they don't really bother with him when they do see him. I have appointments to keep for my own health and also our grandsons, and now his mum is saying she wants to go back to court to increase the contact, which I have no way of doing currently.

His dad is also getting very agitated with him and has recently started saying our grandson is a little sh*t and that he doesn't listen to him and that our grandson doesn't want to be with him on his own. There was an incident on his last contact when he tried to change his nappy and our grandson screamed in his face as he didn't want him to change him and wanted me to change him. He was so upset that I changed him he also doesn't want to be alone with his dad and seems a bit scared of him. His dad gets very frustrated with this he also gets frustrated when our grandson doesn't eat the food he buys him and regularly threatens that he won't buy him anything ever again if he doesn't eat it or do as he says. He says I don't buy u food for u not to eat it and waste my money now eat it. We have spoken to dad numerous times about this and even his girlfriend who has just started coming on one contact a month as they have been together nearly 2 years. She has told us she has noticed dad is getting agitated by our grandson she has said neither dad or child are ready for contact to be increased or unsupervised.

We also have some concern going unsupervised as we can't guarantee dad would leave our grandson unsupervised with his partner and when social services were involved they said she was never to be left unsupervised with our grandson but wouldn't tell us why. We know she has lost her 2 children to adoption but the reason why is still unclear. Obviously we got the sgo to keep our grandson safe and do what's best for him at all times but we are concerned if she takes us to court for more contact we won't be able to and it will cause him more harm than good. We don't think we would be able to stretch ourselves more to do more contact.

We have given both mum and dad a full day each in the summer holidays because we said no to unsupervised contact. They also get a full day each around his birthday and Christmas so we have been fair with them both but we just don't think it's the right time for our grandson to offer anymore contact at the present time especially when our grandson struggles with the contact that he currently has to do.

Any help with this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Dear Childrencomefirst

Thank you very much for your further post. I am sorry that I was not able to respond sooner. I am sorry to hear that you are still having difficulties.

It is clear from what you say that you are prioritising your grandson’s needs fully. You are also doing your very best to be fair to his mum and dad. You have kept to the arrangements set out in the Child Arrangements Order (CAO) although this is problematic. You have explained fully what your concerns for your grandson are should you move to unsupervised contact. Your concerns are valid and the decisions you are taking seem very reasonable and appropriate to keep your grandson safe. You are thinking about his emotional safety as well as his physical safety. This is very important. You are acting responsibly.

Your grandson’s mum is currently pressurising you to allow her more contact. However, you have set out the difficulties she is having managing the current 3 hours; she is not engaged with her son when they are together, and she ends their time together early. You also say that she has not supervised your grandson properly, does not budget for your grandson’s needs during contact, is drinking, may be using drugs and was very recently involved with a violent man.

You also have worries about your son as he is struggling with caring for his son during contact, has been agitated and called your grandson abusive names. You believe that your son might leave his child alone with his partner if you allowed unsupervised contact.

As discussed previously, you have been given the right to make decisions for your grandson including about the contact he has with his parents, as long as they adhere to the current court order (which you can also apply to court to vary if it is no longer in your grandson’s best interests).

If your grandson was a Looked After Child before you got the SGO then the assessing social worker should have agreed an SGO support plan with you. You can contact the local authority Special Guardianship Support team for more support and guidance around the issues that you are having. I hope that they will be able to reassure you and perhaps they can liaise with your son and your grandson’s mum to encourage them to work on their parenting skills and understand your grandson’s needs better.

If your grandson’s mum wants to take the matter back to court to push for more/unsupervised contact, then she would need to offer you mediation first. All the information you have provided is relevant. The court will always prioritise your grandson’s needs in any decision they consider. So please don’t feel threatened by the prospect of court.

If your view is that the current CAO contact plans are no longer appropriate for your grandson and are having a negative impact, then you also have the option of applying to asking the court to change the terms of the CAO. This is called varying the order. This is a private law advice matter which we can not provide detailed advice on but I will provide you with some initial information and signpost you to services who can advise or help you more with this, if you need it. You would need to show the court that varying the order was in your grandson’s best interests. Child Law Advice provide advice and information on how to do this which you can find here ; please scroll to the flowchart at the end of the page. The court form used is C100.

If you would like to get legal advice about this, you can contact:

Child Law Advice: family line 0300 330 5480, email or webchat.
Rights of Women: family law advice line 020 7251 6577 (please see their website for opening times)
And if you needed help with form filling or procedures then Support Through Court may be able to help.

I hope this helps.

If you have any queries about children’s services’ role please post back or contact the advice service by calling our freephone advice line on 0808 8010366, Mon to Fri, 9.30 am to 3.00 pm (except bank holidays), by sending an advice enquiry form or using our webchat facility.

Best wishes

Suzie