Contact advise needed

[millie]

Hi we have SGO for 2 of our grandchildren. The other grandchild is with the paternal grandparents. The court ordered that mum was to see all grandchildren at least 6 times a year supervised. Lo that’s with the paternal grandparents the contact was to be with mum (daughter) myself and paternal grandmother. After a while mum asked if paternal grandmother if her other 2 children which I have could attend then all 3 children could be together when they see their mum. Everything was fine until paternal grandfather retired and he insisted on being there as well. ( mum and him don t get in )Mum asked if he would mind not coming but he said that the lo wanted his grandad there. We could nt quite understand this and when we asked gf said that lo was anxious and would nt go anywhere without him. But at the same time he was going to other places on his own without gf . ( Photos all over Facebook) Mum decided that she would nt see him until he could come and see her without gf being there and just the grandmother s. This was over a year ago. The paternal grandparents still offered contact every school holiday which mum declined. Anyway this time mum excepted and said she would have to except paternal gf being there. It was all arranged for tommorrow for myself , paternal grandparents, the 3 children and mum to meet up. Until this evening I got a message from the paternal gm saying lo did nt want to see mum tomorrow but would only go if myself and my 2 lo were there.
I ve had to explain to my 2 lo that there brother does nt want mum there. They were absolutely devastated and have refused to go tommorrow. So we are not going. I feel mum should be able to see all 3 of her children but the paternal grandparents for some reason have always put barriers in the way. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Robin D]

Hi Millie and welcome here.

My apologies, I was at the theatre last night when the alert arrived, and had things to deal with first thing so have only just read your message.

What a difficult situation for everyone, but especially the children. I can't offer any advice to help for today unless the say the two grandmothers or two grandfather can talk it through and agree something that can be made to work. Maybe meet up so the three children see each other, then the third child leaves before Mum arrives or something like that that dealing with the immediate sensitivities? However, even if you do manage something today (or perhaps tomorrow) you need to deal with the long-term issues if the three children are not to be hurt.

You don't say (and I don't need to know) the circumstances that led to the children being spit or under what sort of order the other child is with the other grandparents, but clearly there is something going on that is not visible with unresolved issues affecting at least one child. Please don't read me wrong, if any 'insecure' child refuses to see anyone without someone they see as 'protective', I fully understand that. It's easy to assume that the other grandfather is being difficult with no other information available, but it's actually very common for children to form a security bond with one particular individual, and for the intentions of that person to be mis-read when they put the wishes of the child first and, also want to maintain the confidence of the child by not disclosing the child's stated wishes by explaining to a wider audience. Whatever the cause of the children to be living with you and the other child elsewhere, there are bound to be some real attachment issues as far as each of the children are concerned.

I am not saying that is the case, just pointing out that it happens and that research into broken or poorly formed attachments in very early life continues to challenge those trying to understand that area. .

I suggest an independent person needs to be talking too the children to try to understand what the worries and concerns around contact with Mum (and therefore their sibling(s) are. None of the currently involved adults will be seen as independent (and therefore to be entire trusted) by ALL the children. I don't think talking to just the one child will resolve all the issues for the children in your care. The Local Authority SGO support or permanency team might be a good place to ask for advice. Possibly it's a candidate for a Family Group Conference to see if the matter can be resolved in a structured way by the all the adults involved to the benefit of all three children. Or possibly some form of counselling for your other grandson.

So sorry the two grandchildren have been distressed by the incident (an the apparent rejection of them by their brother), and I also empathise with Mum in this situation. It sounds as if she has been reasonable throughout, and will have been herself hurt by the refusal to see her.

Good luck with finding a solution both in the short and the longer term ..... Robin

[millie]

Hi Robin
Thanks for getting back to me. I perhaps did nt explain myself properly. The contact this morning was meant just for mum and grandson. We have separate contact for all 3 children. Where it’s just the 3 children and both sets of grandparents.
Todays contact was court ordered originally for myself paternal grandmother to be there with mum and grandson. Mum had agreed for paternal grandfather and her other 2 children as that was what the paternal grandparents requested.
This has been going on for some time now. At one point the SGO team were involved ( as the paternal grandparents have an SGO also for our grandson) I don’t want to go them as last time they seemed to take sides ( we were at SGO meeting with the children and they were discussing it with the paternal grandparents which made me feel very uncomfortable and also my 2 lo picked up on it ) I have not been to another meeting since. I used to attend them regularly. Mum spoke to the SGO team and they told her our grandson was having therapy around his anxiety but they d work with him to enable her to see them but in the mean time. The SGO team asked the paternal grandparents to send mum regular updates, photos and school reports which has only happened once.
Contact did nt go ahead this morning as our grandson told one of my lo that he s not going as he does nt like mum ( they sometimes play online together) I messaged the paternal grandparents to ask the reason why he doesn’t like mum as we could perhaps understand the reason why he does nt want to see her. I ve had no explanation . As it stands now mum is very hurt and going to get in touch with social services and her solicitor.
What’s so upsetting Robin is that when we were going through court which was 10 years ago. It was written in the court order that mum would see our grandson working towards not having the paternal grandparents there just myself to supervise. Which obviously has nt happened. Bf to our grandson sees him weekly . He goes to stop with bf ( without paternal go being there )and his latest gf even though he’s been in court 3 years ago for domestic abuse. It just doesn’t seem fair.

[Robin D]

There are two distinct issues that need to be looked at:
- Contact between the siblings
- Contact with mum.

It would be a real shame if the one was lost because the other cannot be made to work.

The children in your care are feeling the apparent (to them) rejection of them by their brother. That's a different relationship to their mother. It's important that contact with her can be maintained if at all possible, but losing your siblings is really painful. I didn't realise that when I unwittingly allowed sibling contact to fall away with some that we adopted, and it came back as a huge issue in their adult life, and of course they blamed us, although we were acting under written instructions from a senior SW. I do blame me for not being stronger over that issue.

What you are going through is not unique by any measure. It's a brave and important thing you are doing bringing up the two children you have, and I know how hard and stressful that is. I hope you don't read this as ay form of criticism because it is not. You have to keep doing what YOU KNOW is right for the children in your care. I can advise and perhaps suggest different approaches and alternative ways of looking at things, but I am not dealing with the problem or any fall-out. I do hope a solution can be found. I understand your reticence to seek help from the SW, but asking if a family group conference is an option, should not bring any difficulties as at least they can see you have researched possible ways around things. If they agree, a FGC facilitator would pick it up and they are totally neutral from my experience. You can read more about Family Group Conferences at https://frg.org.uk/get-help-and-advice/ ... -families/.

I really do with you well with this. Dealing with these painful situations, and bringing up grandchildren is not what we expect to be doing in later life, but it's proven that it's way more preferable for the child, and outcomes if the children can remain within the wider family.

[millie]

Thanks for the advice Robin. The 2 I have here have always maintained contact with mum. And we ve always pushed for contact with their brother. I will certainly take you recommendations on board

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Hi we have SGO for 2 of our grandchildren. The other grandchild is with the paternal grandparents. The court ordered that mum was to see all grandchildren at least 6 times a year supervised. Lo that’s with the paternal grandparents the contact was to be with mum (daughter) myself and paternal grandmother. After a while mum asked if paternal grandmother if her other 2 children which I have could attend then all 3 children could be together when they see their mum. Everything was fine until paternal grandfather retired and he insisted on being there as well. ( mum and him don t get in )Mum asked if he would mind not coming but he said that the lo wanted his grandad there. We could nt quite understand this and when we asked gf said that lo was anxious and would nt go anywhere without him. But at the same time he was going to other places on his own without gf . ( Photos all over Facebook) Mum decided that she would nt see him until he could come and see her without gf being there and just the grandmother s. This was over a year ago. The paternal grandparents still offered contact every school holiday which mum declined. Anyway this time mum excepted and said she would have to except paternal gf being there. It was all arranged for tommorrow for myself , paternal grandparents, the 3 children and mum to meet up. Until this evening I got a message from the paternal gm saying lo did nt want to see mum tomorrow but would only go if myself and my 2 lo were there.
I ve had to explain to my 2 lo that there brother does nt want mum there. They were absolutely devastated and have refused to go tommorrow. So we are not going. I feel mum should be able to see all 3 of her children but the paternal grandparents for some reason have always put barriers in the way. Any advice would be appreciated.

Dear millie

Thank you for posting again on the kinship carers’ discussion forum.

I am sorry that due to volume of work this response delayed as the contact was due to take place the day after your post. Hopefully, you and the other grandparents have been able reach agreement for contact going forward.

Although you have a special guardianship order (SGO) and I assume that it is the same for the other grandparents, it is not clear from your post.

It is unfortunate that the children’s mother refused to have contact with her child without, it seems, considering the impact it would have. The grandfather having retired may now want to be more involved so decided to accompany the grand-mother to contact with the child. Not seeing a child for a whole year is a significant amount of time in a child’s life. The grandfather although at contact, the contact is for the bene-fit of the child and mum it seems was not putting her child’s needs first in this instance. I understand she does not get on with the grandfather, but it is not about him or her but the child and both should consider the child’s needs.

If there is a court order for the mother’s contact and, as you say, the grandparents put barriers up to prevent contact – although you said in your post they made child available but mother refused to take up contact, then she can try mediation to resolve the issue.
Failing that, she could apply to the court to enforce the order for contact. Alternatively, she can ask for the order to be changed so that it states the child has contact with the other siblings.

Special guardians are able to make decisions which they consider to be in a child’s best interests.

If both sets of grandparents have SGOs then I suggest you ask the special guardian support services of the local authority to assist in resolving the issues relating to contact.

Hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie