How do we get the IRO to listen to us?

[Golli66]

Hi all I'm ooking for some advice please.

We have our 2 grandchildren with us 1 since 2020 & 1 since 2021, birth parents have never been committed or consistent to their children since their births.

Since September 2022 they have hardly ever turned up to contact, and in 2023 birth mum attended 5 times birth father attended 2.

Since November 2023 they have never attended contact.

At all lac reviews since January 2023, when trying to get contact reduced all we seem to ever get told is we'll monitor it for the next period.

So far things that social services have done to get birth parents to attend contact is.

Bought them 4 mobile phone, each one they have sold.

Used contact centre as close to their home as possible for contact.

Paid their travel expenses to attend contact.

And even transported them to contact, then lied about doing this.

How do we get the IRO realise that enough is enough.

We're kinship carers, and birth father is my son

Thank you

[Robin D]

Hi @Golli66. Welcome to the forum.

Let me be clear I am just another contributor here. Hopefully My response is of some assistance?

If I am honest, I am not sure you need to get the IRO to listen. The local authority have a duty to promote contact with the birth parents, and need to be seen to do so before they take court action.

However, I am frankly surprised the the matter has been allowed to continue for so long with apparently no plan for permanence for the children. You don't say what the legal status of the children is. If you do not know you need to ask the social worker for clarification as that will very much affect the advice that can be offered here.

Assuming you are invited to reviews, the IRO should be contacting you to seek your views beforehand. In my opinion, you need to express your views in a way that stresses the impact of lack of permanence on the children, and while it is OK to factually state the contact experiences thus far, try not to focus on the failures of the parents. Let the professionals take on that task. Frankly, what support the birth parents have had from Children's Services is irrelevant to your care of the children, much as that is galling to you. I am sure you are less than impressed with your own son, but if you are able to maintain some form of relationship, it will reap benefit in the long terms, especially for the children.

I am assuming you are prepared to bring up your grandchildren as your own. You possibly need to ask the IRO what is the plan for the children to provide them stability. There are a number of options including Special Guardianship, but until the current legal status of the children is known, it difficult to advise further.

I am sure @Suzie will be along soon to offer some better advice.

Hoping this gives you some help.

Best wishes .... Robin

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Hi all I'm ooking for some advice please.

We have our 2 grandchildren with us 1 since 2020 & 1 since 2021, birth parents have never been committed or consistent to their children since their births.

Since September 2022 they have hardly ever turned up to contact, and in 2023 birth mum attended 5 times birth father attended 2.

Since November 2023 they have never attended contact.

At all lac reviews since January 2023, when trying to get contact reduced all we seem to ever get told is we'll monitor it for the next period.

So far things that social services have done to get birth parents to attend contact is.

Bought them 4 mobile phone, each one they have sold.

Used contact centre as close to their home as possible for contact.

Paid their travel expenses to attend contact.

And even transported them to contact, then lied about doing this.

How do we get the IRO realise that enough is enough.

We're kinship carers, and birth father is my son

Thank you

Dear Golli66

Welcome to the kinship carers forum and thank you for posting.

My name is Suzie, online adviser at Family Rights Group and I will respond to your post.

You have already had a response from another poster who raised important questions regarding the legal status of your grandchildren whom you have been caring for since 2020 and 2021 respectively. As you mention attending looked after child (LAC) reviews, the children are looked after and, as such, children’s services ( new name for social services) have specific duties to children in their care which includes promoting contact with parents and other extended family members. Children’s services seem to be doing all they can to ensure the parents are given the opportunity to have contact with their children. There is no mention in your post of the children’s ages or what impact you believe the lack of contact or failed visits have on the children.

Whilst you are caring for your grandchildren in the capacity of foster carers and able to express your views regarding the contact especially where there is a direct impact on your plans and the effect of the children, the final decision regarding contact rests with children’s services. Here is information about the independent reviewing officer’s (IRO) role where there is a care order. The IRO can discuss the children’s welfare and care plan with the social worker to ensure that it meets the children’s needs. Unfortunately, without knowing the current situation for the children and their placement with you it is difficult to give you other than general advice.

You may wish to post again giving more information about the basis on which you are caring for the children, but if the children are looked after children’s services will make decisions. It does not mean the IRO is not listening to you, it may be that you are not getting the outcome you hope for regarding contact. As you mentioned at the beginning of your post the parents have never been committed or consistent in the children’s lives and this is a pattern of behaviour that children’s services is aware of and trying to do their best to support the parents.

It may be that children’s services will decide to apply to the court to end contact but I do not know enough about the case to state this will happen or if it is possible now.

Should you wish to speak with one of our experienced advisers, you can telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30am to 3.00pm Monday to Friday (excluding Bank Holidays).

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

[Golli66]

Hi Robin thanks for your post, the legal status of the children is, we have them on full care order.

The plan for permenance is sgo.

We was already to go seek legal advice on eldest granddaughter in 2021,then birth parents we're having 2nd baby.

We were advised by the social worker at the time to hold off with the sgo till we knew what was happening with the 2nd grandchild.

Then that social worker left and we were given a new social worker who was a manipulative bully and a lier, and all she cared about was making birth parents happy and refusing to listen or act on any of our concerns.

She refused to do anything that was in the best interests of the children.

She said we're not allowed the sgo whilst she was involved

It took 18 months to finally have her removed.

We've been invited to all lac reviews, and attended them. We voiced our concerns, and all the IRO said was we'll monitor it for the next period ie 6 months, this has gone on since January 2023.

Now our grandchildren have a new social worker & we have a new IRO.

We have spoken to the new IRO and got our views which are all evidence based.

How do I express our views in a way that stresses the impact of lack of permanence on our grandchildren,

There is no relationship with my son which does hurt me, because he believes that I've stolen his children.

We're definitely committed to keep our grandchildren safe, for the rest of our lives

[Golli66]

Hi all I'm ooking for some advice please.

We have our 2 grandchildren with us 1 since 2020 & 1 since 2021, birth parents have never been committed or consistent to their children since their births.

Since September 2022 they have hardly ever turned up to contact, and in 2023 birth mum attended 5 times birth father attended 2.

Since November 2023 they have never attended contact.

At all lac reviews since January 2023, when trying to get contact reduced all we seem to ever get told is we'll monitor it for the next period.

So far things that social services have done to get birth parents to attend contact is.

Bought them 4 mobile phone, each one they have sold.

Used contact centre as close to their home as possible for contact.

Paid their travel expenses to attend contact.

And even transported them to contact, then lied about doing this.

How do we get the IRO realise that enough is enough.

We're kinship carers, and birth father is my son

Thank you

Dear Golli66

Welcome to the kinship carers forum and thank you for posting.

My name is Suzie, online adviser at Family Rights Group and I will respond to your post.

You have already had a response from another poster who raised important questions regarding the legal status of your grandchildren whom you have been caring for since 2020 and 2021 respectively. As you mention attending looked after child (LAC) reviews, the children are looked after and, as such, children’s services ( new name for social services) have specific duties to children in their care which includes promoting contact with parents and other extended family members. Children’s services seem to be doing all they can to ensure the parents are given the opportunity to have contact with their children. There is no mention in your post of the children’s ages or what impact you believe the lack of contact or failed visits have on the children.

Whilst you are caring for your grandchildren in the capacity of foster carers and able to express your views regarding the contact especially where there is a direct impact on your plans and the effect of the children, the final decision regarding contact rests with children’s services. Here is information about the independent reviewing officer’s (IRO) role where there is a care order. The IRO can discuss the children’s welfare and care plan with the social worker to ensure that it meets the children’s needs. Unfortunately, without knowing the current situation for the children and their placement with you it is difficult to give you other than general advice.

You may wish to post again giving more information about the basis on which you are caring for the children, but if the children are looked after children’s services will make decisions. It does not mean the IRO is not listening to you, it may be that you are not getting the outcome you hope for regarding contact. As you mentioned at the beginning of your post the parents have never been committed or consistent in the children’s lives and this is a pattern of behaviour that children’s services is aware of and trying to do their best to support the parents.

It may be that children’s services will decide to apply to the court to end contact but I do not know enough about the case to state this will happen or if it is possible now.

Should you wish to speak with one of our experienced advisers, you can telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30am to 3.00pm Monday to Friday (excluding Bank Holidays).

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

Hi Suzie thanks for your response.

Our grandchildren are on full care order eldest is 5 years, she was removed at birth & went from hospital to foster care she came to us at 9months old.

Youngest 3 years he went to mother & baby foster unit for his 1st 3 months, then was left at the unit by mum and she never went back, he came to us at 4 months old.

Should you need any more details just let me know

Thank you

[Robin D]

How do I express our views in a way that stresses the impact of lack of permanence on our grandchildren,

Thanks for the further information. Certainly seems as though the one social worker was failing to put the needs of the children first.

As regards the issue of permanance, it should be a question addressed at every review anyway along with any parallel planning. I would simply say that the children have a right to stability of placement. The procedures social workers should operate by say

The question "how are the child's permanence needs being met?" must be at the core of everything we do.

Where it is necessary for a child to leave their family:

This should be for as short a time as is required to secure a safe, supported return home; or
If a child cannot return home, plans must be made for alternative permanent care. Family members and friends should always be considered in the first instance with the permanence secured through the appropriate legal order to meet the child's needs;
Where it is not in the child's best interests to live within the family network, it will usually be in the interests of the child for alternative permanent carers to be identified and the placement secured through adoption, long term foster care, Child Arrangements Orders or Special Guardianship Orders; (remainder of text removed as irrelavant).
Where it is clear that families and children are unable to live together, planning must be swift and clear to identify permanent alternative settings.

You might like simply state that you understand it is a standard requirement that providing the children with the security of a permanant placement is a critical question to be answerd at the review, and to state, (If it is your wish?) that you want to start the process of special guardianship to provide the children with the security that a permanent place brings.

You may find a read of https://frg.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2 ... edings.pdf helpful both in terms of what to expect, but also in pushing things along.

Again @Suzie may offer better advice and you should always follow that provided by her if it differs from mine.

Good luck..... Robin