Hi All,
I am not sure if this is the right place but hopefully someone can give me some much needed advice on how to deal with the situation we are in.
sorry in advance for the long post
some background:
My mum (60) was granted an SGO for my cousin (9) around 3 years ago following a couple of years being his foster carer. Cousin was removed from his mother due to abuse and neglect. Bar some ups and downs in that time this was going relatively well. However, last year mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer and is currently going through chemo and operations to try and extend life (beating it is off the table we are told).
Clearly this has had a significant impact on mums life and her ability to look after my cousin, so much so that she came to the conclusion that she would need to give him up, a decision that she really did not want to make. before she did this however, my girlfriend and I talked and as we didn't want him to go back into the system said that we would take him on.
We have now had him for around 4 months and it has been an absolute nightmare to be honest. In this time he has been suspended from school at least 8 times for throwing furniture, damaging property and hitting/kicking teachers. He has also repeatedly trashed things in the house and hit/kicked my girlfriend on many occasions. At first we were understanding, its a big upheaval and stress for him we suspect, but over time this has only gotten worse. to the point where the last three times I have suggested giving him up but my girlfriend kept wanting to try make it work.
We have tried everything we can think of, talking/explaining things, punishment (losing tech, TV time etc), rewards (charts, tasks, pocket money etc), got my mum involved when she really doesn't need the stress, absolutely nothing works for more than a day or so.
Throughout all this time, we have had little to no contact with social workers, and the contact we have had we have actively reached out to them. We had a lovely lady who used to be his case worker that called us but this was mostly off her own back in response to our needs rather than official intervention, the best we got officially was advice to speak to a solicitor about the process (!), and at no point have we had an inspection despite being told that this would happen
Where we are now
This all finally came to a head last week, when he was again suspended for hitting multiple teachers, and then the following day when refusing to do the work school sent home he hit my girlfriend multiple times again. This time my girlfriend has also had enough so contacted the local team to tell them about it/get them to come out.
They advised they would come out to see us, which they did and my GF and Mum had the meeting and explained everything. My GF making it very clear that we are unable and now unwilling to continue with this, that we did not want him to live with us any more. Her response to this was essentially, sorry can't help, this is mums problem. If we didn't want to have him, mum would need to nominate someone else, or take him back (this was after she was told mum has cancer). Clearly, this cant happen so we asked then what we should do, just put up with the violence? again her response was ludicrous, she asked if we could get someone to come around to sit with my GF/check on her, while I came home from work! and that our final option would be for mum to put in the application for the SGO to be removed.
she was supposed to come again last week, but 45 minutes after she was supposed to arrive, GF texted them to see if they were coming and is now rescheduled for this week (which i am taking the day to ensure i am there).
in the meantime we have had a letter to say they are coming out to do an inspection to ensure our suitability for taking over his care. But we are clear, and have been with them that we are unable to and crucially unwilling to continue with this, I can put up with kids being kids, i came from a big family, but i will not have violence in my house, and i will not put up with him hitting my girlfriend.
No other family members will take him (on our side) even if they could because of his behaviour, so we are now in this bewildering position of being told by the local authority that they will not take him and this is essentially our/mums problem to deal with through the courts, which from what i gather can take months/year, and so have to continue to care for him and put up with him hitting my girlfriend in the meantime.
Quite frankly I am sick of this whole thing, wish we had never got involved and just let mum give him up 8 months ago, and now i have no idea what we are supposed to do next, it appears local team do not actually care about him or us, and are providing no real clear answers on how we go about removing the SGO to begin with or what we are supposed to do in the meantime.
any advice is welcome
Advice Needed, Ending SGO/Removing Child From Our Care
Re: Advice Needed, Ending SGO/Removing Child From Our Care
Hello SGOHelp and welcome to the forum.
I understand your pain, confusion, anger and frustration at the situation, and an so sorry to hear of your mother's health problem and prognosis.
@Suzie, the FRG advisor will be along with some help as soon as she is able, but from a carer's point of view from having three extremely violent children in our care, I felt I could possibly offer some 'understanding' if not actual help. Dealing with the violence is amongst the most difficult things we have dealt with in about half a century of helping children. It seems as though you have been trying all the standard things and none of these have proved useful. That Children's Services have been so unhelpful is a further failure for the child, and I expect you have been told at some point that it is something you are doing.
From your post, can I please confirm that the child is currently 9, so was about 6 when he came into your mothers care, and just 4 before he went into foster care? So the child has had a severely disrupted early life followed by a number of changes of carer. I think any child having been through that experience is going to be be suffering from Attachment problems, and that alone may be explaining many of the behaviours you have witnessed. Has he been referred to CAHMS? I know there is a long wait, but your GP can ask for a priority initial assessment as the child is at risk of harm, from his own behaviours. Unless CAHMS are involved, I am astounded Childrens' Services have not picked up on either of those aspects. However in my experience, our GP has always been able to push things along a lot faster than the social workers.
The school is in an impossible position as I am sure you recognise, but the exclusions are seen by the child as a rejection. However the local authority have a duty to provide him with an education. I suspect he will end up in a pupil referral unit (PRU) or similar, but clearly the first priority is to sort out where he is to live. Sadly it's a fairly common story that Children's Services do not take matters seriously until it is too late as is your experience. Sadly of course that means yet another change of carer and another broken bond. The lad will be internally thinking that it's all his fault, and that all these rejections feed into his lack of self worth.
If you were to persevere, from our experience, the unrelated three children turned out:
1. Boy. When he came to us at 6, (we were told he was 4), he came from a children's home and had previously had a number of foster parents. We had problems from the first day we met him when we refused to buy him a second ice cream in an hour. He was violent and an accomplished thief. We kept him until he was 17 when he was sent to prison. However, we were black and blue on occasion. We have not seen him in 25 years but know from the police that they again looking for him.
2. Girl. Came to us age 10 and was an absolute delight until we tried to take her older sibling as that placement has broken down about two years later. We also managed to hang on to her until she walked out aged 17 but the violent outbursts have never stopped.
3. Boy. Came to us first at about 18 months, returned home until just after 2nd birthday. Snatched by birth mother at age about
8 but courts and police returned him to our care.Excluded from primary and two secondary schools. Referred to CAHMS aged about ten but not seen until 13 by when it was too late. Police refused to attend when we called them unless we were prepared to allow prosecution that we were not prepared to do. Put himself in care at 14 and went to a succession of professional foster parents before being housed by Children's services in a shared house with other very difficult children. Has been in a lot of trouble with the law and also detained at least once. However in very recent years (He is now 29) he is caring, helpful and even this morning message me to find out if I had slept better knowing that I had been up with a medical issue the night before.
To put that into context, two other long term children we had that came with issues stayed with us until 21 and 23.
We were told by a very experienced and helpful social worker many years ago that dealing with children with disrupted early lives is a bit like containing them in a pen with walls they can just about climb up, and that every time they did, you had to gently put them back in the pen because they will constantly push the boundaries. Behaviours need to allowed or not allowed, no grey scale. E.g. Swearing cannot be allowed today but not tomorrow. Sanctions for breaches need to be pre identified and understood and never not enacted and seen through. However, if a sanction is completed satisfactorily a small reward should follow. It works to a point, but it causes some regression when the boundaries have to be moved either because they are older, or
I hope this does provide some understanding of what is going on. Only you and your partner can decide what you can deal with, and no-one, especially me, is going to judge you whatever you decide. However, in the event he does leave your care, it might be helpful if you can at least maintain some form of contact and be a 'friend' as he steps off into this frightening new situation.
Should you decide to give it one more try than I suggest first a long talk with the GP, then a complaint to Children's Services that they are failing a child in need. Then have a look at https://frg.org.uk/get-help-and-advice/ ... ort-group/ to see if there is another kinship care support group near you. You would be welcomed and would find that so many things you are seeing are issues are people are either dealing with or even have resolved.
I wish you well whatever the outcome.
Robin
I understand your pain, confusion, anger and frustration at the situation, and an so sorry to hear of your mother's health problem and prognosis.
@Suzie, the FRG advisor will be along with some help as soon as she is able, but from a carer's point of view from having three extremely violent children in our care, I felt I could possibly offer some 'understanding' if not actual help. Dealing with the violence is amongst the most difficult things we have dealt with in about half a century of helping children. It seems as though you have been trying all the standard things and none of these have proved useful. That Children's Services have been so unhelpful is a further failure for the child, and I expect you have been told at some point that it is something you are doing.
From your post, can I please confirm that the child is currently 9, so was about 6 when he came into your mothers care, and just 4 before he went into foster care? So the child has had a severely disrupted early life followed by a number of changes of carer. I think any child having been through that experience is going to be be suffering from Attachment problems, and that alone may be explaining many of the behaviours you have witnessed. Has he been referred to CAHMS? I know there is a long wait, but your GP can ask for a priority initial assessment as the child is at risk of harm, from his own behaviours. Unless CAHMS are involved, I am astounded Childrens' Services have not picked up on either of those aspects. However in my experience, our GP has always been able to push things along a lot faster than the social workers.
The school is in an impossible position as I am sure you recognise, but the exclusions are seen by the child as a rejection. However the local authority have a duty to provide him with an education. I suspect he will end up in a pupil referral unit (PRU) or similar, but clearly the first priority is to sort out where he is to live. Sadly it's a fairly common story that Children's Services do not take matters seriously until it is too late as is your experience. Sadly of course that means yet another change of carer and another broken bond. The lad will be internally thinking that it's all his fault, and that all these rejections feed into his lack of self worth.
If you were to persevere, from our experience, the unrelated three children turned out:
1. Boy. When he came to us at 6, (we were told he was 4), he came from a children's home and had previously had a number of foster parents. We had problems from the first day we met him when we refused to buy him a second ice cream in an hour. He was violent and an accomplished thief. We kept him until he was 17 when he was sent to prison. However, we were black and blue on occasion. We have not seen him in 25 years but know from the police that they again looking for him.
2. Girl. Came to us age 10 and was an absolute delight until we tried to take her older sibling as that placement has broken down about two years later. We also managed to hang on to her until she walked out aged 17 but the violent outbursts have never stopped.
3. Boy. Came to us first at about 18 months, returned home until just after 2nd birthday. Snatched by birth mother at age about
8 but courts and police returned him to our care.Excluded from primary and two secondary schools. Referred to CAHMS aged about ten but not seen until 13 by when it was too late. Police refused to attend when we called them unless we were prepared to allow prosecution that we were not prepared to do. Put himself in care at 14 and went to a succession of professional foster parents before being housed by Children's services in a shared house with other very difficult children. Has been in a lot of trouble with the law and also detained at least once. However in very recent years (He is now 29) he is caring, helpful and even this morning message me to find out if I had slept better knowing that I had been up with a medical issue the night before.
To put that into context, two other long term children we had that came with issues stayed with us until 21 and 23.
We were told by a very experienced and helpful social worker many years ago that dealing with children with disrupted early lives is a bit like containing them in a pen with walls they can just about climb up, and that every time they did, you had to gently put them back in the pen because they will constantly push the boundaries. Behaviours need to allowed or not allowed, no grey scale. E.g. Swearing cannot be allowed today but not tomorrow. Sanctions for breaches need to be pre identified and understood and never not enacted and seen through. However, if a sanction is completed satisfactorily a small reward should follow. It works to a point, but it causes some regression when the boundaries have to be moved either because they are older, or
I hope this does provide some understanding of what is going on. Only you and your partner can decide what you can deal with, and no-one, especially me, is going to judge you whatever you decide. However, in the event he does leave your care, it might be helpful if you can at least maintain some form of contact and be a 'friend' as he steps off into this frightening new situation.
Should you decide to give it one more try than I suggest first a long talk with the GP, then a complaint to Children's Services that they are failing a child in need. Then have a look at https://frg.org.uk/get-help-and-advice/ ... ort-group/ to see if there is another kinship care support group near you. You would be welcomed and would find that so many things you are seeing are issues are people are either dealing with or even have resolved.
I wish you well whatever the outcome.
Robin
Former F&F carer, foster carer, adopter and respite carer for umpteen children. Now retired and when with kids, making sure they 'go home' at the end of the day.
Re: Advice Needed, Ending SGO/Removing Child From Our Care
Hi Robin,
It is nice for someone to take the time to read and then respond in such a warm manner, thank you for that.
Your workings were about right, he is currently 9 and mum has had him just before his 4th birthday. You are right also I think on the attachment elements, I have done a bit formal studying of psychology (not enough to be useful) which included a lot around attachment styles and the resulting issues that can arise and its one of the things I picked on some years back. He has been referred to CAHMS, but told it could take years, you are the second person to mention going via the GP though, so will certainly look into that.
The school, although well meaning haven't been a great deal of help to be honest, he has a 1-2-1 teacher through SENCO but they basically admitted that because he'd been alright for the last year or two they were lapse in interventions and structure (I have stressed that consistency is key), so they were putting that back in place, but again has been inconsistently applied since then. I think also that perhaps through our naivety, as we picked him up whenever anything happened and trusted that what they were saying was for the best, they now just automatically fall into the suspension route because thats an easier solution for them, though that could just be my way of thinking rather than reality. He's been suspended again this morning after posting this, with suggestions they will be looking at reduced hours (they have done this before) but I am not having that so GF has so spoken with social worker to try get support here.
All of this has been incredibly frustrating as you can imagine, we do genuinely care for him, and it is such a shame as he is so lovely and loving whenever he isn't doing this, but we are at a loss as to what to do.
thanks again
It is nice for someone to take the time to read and then respond in such a warm manner, thank you for that.
Your workings were about right, he is currently 9 and mum has had him just before his 4th birthday. You are right also I think on the attachment elements, I have done a bit formal studying of psychology (not enough to be useful) which included a lot around attachment styles and the resulting issues that can arise and its one of the things I picked on some years back. He has been referred to CAHMS, but told it could take years, you are the second person to mention going via the GP though, so will certainly look into that.
The school, although well meaning haven't been a great deal of help to be honest, he has a 1-2-1 teacher through SENCO but they basically admitted that because he'd been alright for the last year or two they were lapse in interventions and structure (I have stressed that consistency is key), so they were putting that back in place, but again has been inconsistently applied since then. I think also that perhaps through our naivety, as we picked him up whenever anything happened and trusted that what they were saying was for the best, they now just automatically fall into the suspension route because thats an easier solution for them, though that could just be my way of thinking rather than reality. He's been suspended again this morning after posting this, with suggestions they will be looking at reduced hours (they have done this before) but I am not having that so GF has so spoken with social worker to try get support here.
All of this has been incredibly frustrating as you can imagine, we do genuinely care for him, and it is such a shame as he is so lovely and loving whenever he isn't doing this, but we are at a loss as to what to do.
thanks again
-
Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 1114
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:25 pm
Re: Advice Needed, Ending SGO/Removing Child From Our Care
Dear SGOHelp
Thank you for your post and welcome to the Forum. I am Suzie one of the adviser at Family Rights Group.
I am sorry to read that your mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, I imagine that this is a very difficult time for you and your family.
You have asked what might be the next steps for the care of your cousin? May I suggest that you ‘insist’ that the local authority assess his needs. It is clear from what you have written that your mother’s health condition prevents her from providing full time care of your cousin and that you and your partner ‘stepped in’ but now find yourselves unable to meet his needs.
Your mother can/ ‘should’ ask the local authority to accommodate your cousin under Section 20 of the Children Act 1989. Working Together to Safeguard Children 2023, has a paragraph that may help see page 53. Your mother ‘could’ state that her health condition prevents her from being able to meet his needs. Your cousin may need some support for his emotional and behavioural needs, his school or his GP may be able to help. You/your mother should ask for help with this from the social worker too.
Although you and your partner ‘stepped in’ to help this does not mean that you should continue to offer care. When the local authority come out to do ‘an inspection’, I imagine that they might suggest that you and your mother ‘entered’ into a private fostering arrangement which enables you to care for your cousin (see also private family arrangement ). May I suggest that if this is put to you that you disagree and suggest that section 20 is what seems best.
In relation to discharging a Special Guardianship Order, here are the relevant forms C1 and FM1 – your mother may require legal help too, though I suggest becoming a ‘looked after child’ through Section 20 (as above) may be the first step.
It may be helpful for you to speak with us on our confidential telephone service, see our webpages for the number and the opening times.
p.s Thank you to Robin D for their helpful response
Best wishes
Suzie
Thank you for your post and welcome to the Forum. I am Suzie one of the adviser at Family Rights Group.
I am sorry to read that your mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, I imagine that this is a very difficult time for you and your family.
You have asked what might be the next steps for the care of your cousin? May I suggest that you ‘insist’ that the local authority assess his needs. It is clear from what you have written that your mother’s health condition prevents her from providing full time care of your cousin and that you and your partner ‘stepped in’ but now find yourselves unable to meet his needs.
Your mother can/ ‘should’ ask the local authority to accommodate your cousin under Section 20 of the Children Act 1989. Working Together to Safeguard Children 2023, has a paragraph that may help see page 53. Your mother ‘could’ state that her health condition prevents her from being able to meet his needs. Your cousin may need some support for his emotional and behavioural needs, his school or his GP may be able to help. You/your mother should ask for help with this from the social worker too.
Although you and your partner ‘stepped in’ to help this does not mean that you should continue to offer care. When the local authority come out to do ‘an inspection’, I imagine that they might suggest that you and your mother ‘entered’ into a private fostering arrangement which enables you to care for your cousin (see also private family arrangement ). May I suggest that if this is put to you that you disagree and suggest that section 20 is what seems best.
In relation to discharging a Special Guardianship Order, here are the relevant forms C1 and FM1 – your mother may require legal help too, though I suggest becoming a ‘looked after child’ through Section 20 (as above) may be the first step.
It may be helpful for you to speak with us on our confidential telephone service, see our webpages for the number and the opening times.
p.s Thank you to Robin D for their helpful response
Best wishes
Suzie
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