Family Rights Group | Kinship carers’ Forum

Hi there, thanks for having me… so this is very complex and challenging. Same as everyone here hey!
I would really welcome any responses. My granddaughter is part of care proceedings, my son is working really hard to get custody but it is proving hard (atm) SC seem to have decided another relative is appropriate and planned placing her with that person in Jan. the court and granddaughters guardian are challenging this in court next week. The carer has been very negative about my son, and agenda seems to be to have a baby she is in debt smokes and has unsuitable accommodation. SC knew my IVA was pending but still made a plan before completing my assessment. They said after my assessment it is highly likely to be negative because SC were involved with my family 12 years ago. It was very complex but ultimately my children were harmed because my exhusband persistently undermined by parenting and wanted the children in care. They recommended he have supervised contact in the end. I guess I want to know if I challenge the negative IVA legally what are my chances? I truly want the best for my granddaughter and this is an awful process. Thank you

Hi @Justiceandhope. Welcome here.

Suzie the FRG advisor does not normally work at the weekend but will be along early next week with advice. However I note there is a court hearing next week for your granddaughter, so I wil jump in and make a couple of suggestions.

1. I suggest you apply to the court before the hearing to become 'party to proceedings'. There is a fee for that of I believe about £200 but gives you the right to be in court and to hear all the evidence. You may or may not be successful, but provided you get your application in before the next hearing, it is likely to be heard right at the front of the planned hearing. You do not need to be legally represented. If this is something you want to consider, the form is available at https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -be-a-part. You might also ring the Court Office on Monday and seek their advice and guidance. Part of your application should include two points.
a) That you beleive Childrens Services are presumed that your assessement would be negative before they have started it.
b) That the authority should be parallel planning, in case their preferred solution does not work out.

You say your son is also trying to have your granddaughter. If he is on the birth certificate he should already be a party. If that is the case, then would he support your application, if his own is unssuccessful?

2. You do not say who the other relative is, but clearly have concerns about their suitability. I wonder if suggesting a family group conference may assist. https://frg.org.uk/get-help-and-advice/ ... -families/.

Hopefully this at least gives you something over the weekend, but please feel free to ring the advice line Monday, 9.30am to 3pm on 0808 801 0366 for more immediate advice from the experts. I am just an old codger of a great grandparent who has been through the loops many times.

You are of course right in your assessment that its an 'awful process'.

Good luck ... Robin

Dear Robin,

Thank you so much for your kind reply. I will certainly look into your recommendations, my son put me forward for assessment so yes supportive.
The other person is a distant Auntie, my understanding is that the CAFCASS guardian, my son and his solicictor are all very concerned about her motivations and other factors.
A family group conference has been converned for Wednesday, but because tensions are so high (the auntie has lied multiple times about my son to SC, which they seem to be believing) and that the auntie is bringing two friends with her to conference who know one knows, my son is pretty distressed about it with them present. He has asked for them not to be included, alternatively I wonder if postponing until after Thursday might be sensible, given the Auntie currently is under the impression she will have care of my grandaughter in the next couple of weeks. SC current plan, which I believe will be changed on Thursday.

Perhaps my understanding of the conference process is incorrect, ultimately we want the Auntie to know the suggested plan is likely to change, and having two of her friends present is not felt to be approriate. The co-ordinator did not ask my son if they could be present, has spoken to both these individual firends and sent them core questions. He has said its a breech of confidentiality and he does not consent. Co-ordinator has said she will ask SC what there thoughts are.

thanks again, and I am sorry you have had to go through this process too

Justiceandhope wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 2:43 pm I am sorry you have had to go through this process too

Wewent through our first assessement (for adioption) in about 1974. We have been reassessed more times than I like to remember for all types of care including many that no longer exist like Wards of The High Court. The law has changed many times since, but I don't think the assessement process has got any easier for those under the magnifying glass in those 50 years. In many respects it's become far more difficult. My personal worry is that there has always been, and continues to be a significant power imbalance between the assessor and the assessed. This is particularly so around the court process where views can and are misrepresented by the assessor, and it can be a difficult job to refute that. At the end of the day, many reports we have seen have been too subjective, and lack objectivity. However, to be fair, whenever we have challenged reports, we have alsways found that when facts are corrected, and an objective view is put before the court, it is accepted by the judge, even to insist on a second indepenedent assessement on two seperate occassions over different children.

It's good that the Guardian is questionng things. They almost certainly will instruct a solicitir for your granddaughter.

I can't really comment on the conference process having only ever attended one giving moral support to the parents of family we were providing help to. In that case, the children stayed at home with support from other family members who had not appreciated how the mum especially was struggling to cope with three children under six, the youngest of which is disabled. Not helped that English was not mum's first language. Children's services were concerned about the youngest's development, and the eldest ones behaviour especially at school and I believe were consdering starting care proceedings. Having been part of the FRG family around the time that Family Group Conferences were first introduced, I was able to challange some of the processes, and I suspect, but will never know for sure, that it affected the outcome. You might want to read https://frg.org.uk/get-help-and-advice/ ... onference/ and the links from there ahead of Thursday.

I wish you strength and luck.

Robin

Justiceandhope wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 9:00 pm Hi there, thanks for having me… so this is very complex and challenging. Same as everyone here hey!
I would really welcome any responses. My granddaughter is part of care proceedings, my son is working really hard to get custody but it is proving hard (atm) SC seem to have decided another relative is appropriate and planned placing her with that person in Jan. the court and granddaughters guardian are challenging this in court next week. The carer has been very negative about my son, and agenda seems to be to have a baby she is in debt smokes and has unsuitable accommodation. SC knew my IVA was pending but still made a plan before completing my assessment. They said after my assessment it is highly likely to be negative because SC were involved with my family 12 years ago. It was very complex but ultimately my children were harmed because my exhusband persistently undermined by parenting and wanted the children in care. They recommended he have supervised contact in the end. I guess I want to know if I challenge the negative IVA legally what are my chances? I truly want the best for my granddaughter and this is an awful process. Thank you

Dear Justiceandhope,

Welcome to the kinship carers’ forum and thank you for your post. I am sorry to hear about the upsetting circumstances you find yourself in and I hope that the following advice and information is helpful to you. You can click on the hyperlinks as they will take you to relevant information on the Family Rights Group website.

I see you have had some useful advice from another forum user. It sounds like there is a court hearing on Thursday this week and I would echo Robin D’s advice to become party to proceedings as soon as possible. Robin D has given you the link that you need to find Form C2 – this is the form you need to apply to the court to become party to proceedings. If you become party to proceedings then you will be able to attend the court hearings and you will receive a copy of all the paperwork submitted to the court. You can then ask the judge to consider your request to be fully assessed as a potential carer for your grandchild. As Robin D has said, the local authority should be parallel planning and they should have started your assessment without a biased viewpoint.

You also say that your son is in favour of you being assessed as a carer if he cannot care for his child. I would suggest that he speaks with his solicitor as soon as possible and asks them to put you forward as a potential carer. The solicitor can ask the court to tell the local authority to properly assess you.

We have a template letter for people who wish to challenge negative viability assessments which you can find HERE (template letter 3). You can fill this out and send to the local authority, the court and your son’s solicitor. I would advise doing this as soon as possible.

I am afraid that I cannot comment on what your chances of success at challenging the initial assessment are as I don’t have enough information to make a judgement on this. However I would strongly encourage you to challenge the negative viability assessment (as above) if you feel that you would like to care for your grandchild.

You also ask whether postponing the family group conference until after the next court hearing would be sensible. Your son can make this request if he feels that it would be beneficial, but as it is now very late notice it may not be postponed. However your son could request that another family group conference is arranged after the court hearing so that any changes of circumstances can be discussed.

I hope that this is of some help. Please post again if you have any further queries or you can call our free, confidential adviceline on 0808 801 0366 (Monday to Friday, 9:30am – 3pm). We also have a webchat which is currently open on Monday and Wednesday afternoons (although closed over the Christmas period).

Best wishes,
Suzie

Dear Suzie,

Many thanks for your helpful reply.

Just a bit of an update, I have completed the paperwork to be part of court proceedings and it has been submitted by my son’s solicitor on my behalf. I phoned the court (thanks Robin) they advised I ask a member already of the proceedings to submit for speed which was really helpful advice. I have not heard from court yet and court is tomorrow, but I will phone the advice line tomorrow just to ask how to find if my application has been accepted and how I speak in court, assuming I will be invited
The points both you and Robin have highlighted are on my application as reasons for attending.

Yes it was my son’s solicitor who put me forward for assessment. Yes I absolutely will challenge a negative IVA (still waiting for it) and I am speaking to a solicitor today to see if it’s the person I want to represent me and challenge a negative assessment. Hey it may actually be positive (but I doubt it!).

Thank you for your suggestion re FGC that is really helpful and something we will put forward.
Thanks everyone

I would attend court anyway. Your application is likely to be heard at the start of the hearing. If accepted, you will be in court for the rest of the hearing. If you are not represented, do not worry. A few things to remember if you are new to the court process.
1. Before the hearing starts there may be a 'professional's meeting. You will not be allowed to attend that. It will be the legal people, the guardian and social worker(s) (Who rarely seem to attend court on their own). There is nothing to worry about, it is about trying to see if a position can be agreed to present to the judge, to save time in court. You may or may not be asked questions by one of the attendees, before, or during that meeting.
2. You will not be expected to know what to do or say in the courtroom. Stand when asked if you can when asked as the judge enters or leaves. The judge may ask you some questions directly but more likely by one of the other legal representatives who will be sitting in front.
3. You might also be asked to go into the witness box; again nothing to worry about although it is stressful first time. In that case, you will be asked questions. If you do not understand the question, say so. Your replies should be addressed to the judge, but provide he or she can hear you, no-one will get upset if you forget because it's natural to reply to the person answering the question. The judge will not allow the solicitors/barristers to 'grill you'. It's all very polite and nothing like it's portrayed on TV.
4. Assuming its a local court, its unlikely that the barristers, and probably the judge wil be in wig and gown.
5. Do not interrupt.
6. Take a notepad and pen with you for two reasons.
a) If you want to ask a question, write it down succinctly and pass it forward.
b) Make notes as you go, especially things you don't understand. You can then ask any of the legal people as you come out.

I would consider carefully if you need your own legal representative at this point. I can very quickly turn into a real money pit of many tens of thousands of pounds, and, unless you are fortunate enough to qualify for legal aid, it may be money better spent on your granddaughter.

Hopefully the above is helpful.

Good luck with it ... Robin

Oh and to add one thing.... Expect a lot of waiting around. you may be there all day as the judge will have other cases to hear. You will probably hear the question being asked 'Are you ready?'.

Take change for the horrid coffee machine... but better than nothing.

So sorry Robin I never actually saw all of this helpful advice.
It was actually held online, my son’s solicitor sent me the link. So I joined and found myself in court! I honestly thought it would be like teams, you sit in a waiting room until you are invited in!
Anyway we bumbled along… next time will be in person and hopefully I will be properly invited:-)

Please don't apologise. I knew they did some of that during the pandemic, but assumed everything was back to hearings in person. I have only supported one Mum through a SGO hearing for her two children back in March and that was in person. How wrong can I be.