Hi,
We had taken our daughter to a&e following an incident at a photo shoot where the photographer put our daughter into several positions pressing down on her legs. Afterwards we took her to a&e as we weren't happy as she was upset and was refusing milk. It was then our world came crashing down, they accused us of hurting our beautiful baby girl. They arrested me, my partner and both maternal grandparents as they were looking after the children as any grandparent would. We are able to have supervised contact with the kids and paternal grandmother is now a supervisor. The LA said that the maternal grandparents cannot see the kids, but they only have to same bail conditions as us which state "no unsupervised contact with anyone under the age of 18", this doesn't say that they can't see them but it has to be supervised. There is nothing in the court order what states that the maternal grandparents cannot see them. The LA will not assist contact as they don't have to, but now the paternal grandmother is now a supervisor then why can she not assist this? We are able to see friends and family who have children as long as we are supervised, so I don't see the difference? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
grandparents rights on bail
-
Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4996
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: grandparents rights on bail
Dear fightformykids99
Welcome to the parents’ discussion board and thank you for your post. My name is Suzie and I am Family Rights Group's online adviser.
I am sorry to hear that your baby daughter was injured and that there are concerns about how her injury occurred. There is an ongoing police investigation and you, your partner and your children’s maternal grandparents were arrested and are subject to bail conditions.
You provide an explanation for how the injuries may have happened when your daughter was at the photoshoot as you describe how the photographer pressed down on her legs. You should discuss this with your criminal solicitors and children law solicitor if you have one (please see below).
You may find it helpful to read the information here about what happens when a child is suspected of having a non-accidental injury .
While the police are responsible for investigating whether a crime has been committed children’s services are the lead agency in terms of protecting children. Therefore, they are now involved in making arrangements to keep your children safe while the circumstances surrounding your daughter’s injuries are investigated. It is not clear from your post whether you are working with children’s services under a child protection investigation, whether have been asked to agree to a section 20 voluntary arrangement or whether children’s services have begun care proceedings. It is important to clarify this as it is relevant to your situation and to any advice given. It also makes a difference as if you are a parent in care proceedings you will have legal aid for representation from a specialist children’s law solicitor and if it is a section 20 voluntary arrangement you won’t have this legal representation.
Please see our advice information on child protection, section 20 voluntary arrangements and care proceedings for more detail.
From the information you provide, I think that the children have been placed with their paternal grandmother as their kinship foster carer . She is responsible for supervising contact between you and your partner and your children.
Your query relates to contact between your children and their maternal grandparents. They are also under police investigation and subject to bail conditions which as you say prohibits unsupervised contact with under 18s. I would expect that the bail conditions would also say that children’s services would need to be involved in any decisions around contact.
As you and your partner are the children’s parents, and as you both (probably) have parental responsibility for your children (not all fathers do, however) then even while there are bail conditions in place children’s services will normally ensure that you continue to have contact with your children once they are satisfied that it is being safely supervised. Your children’s paternal grandmother has been assessed as suitable to do this.
The maternal grandparents don’t have parental responsibility for your children (unless they have a court order giving them this e.g. a Child Arrangements Order or a Special Guardianship Order) so they do not have the same rights to supervised contact as you do. They can of course ask children’s services to arrange supervised contact but they are not required to do so. Again it would be helpful to know the children’s legal status in order to provide more specific advice. There are duties on children’s services to promote contact between children in care and their wider families especially significant relatives, if it is safe. The fact that there is an open criminal investigation is relevant here as the maternal grandparents are in the pool of possible perpetrators at the moment. That may change of course and this would mean that contact with the children should be reviewed.
It is definitely not the paternal grandmother’s responsibility to make decisions about whether she can supervise contact between the children and their maternal grandparents or not. She does not have parental responsibility, she is expected to work with children’s services to safeguard the children and to comply with their recommendations.
If you have a solicitor then talk this through with them. You are also welcome to post back here or to call our freephone advice line on 0808 8010366, Mon to Fri, 9.30 am to 3.00 pm (except bank holidays). Please say what process you are in, if you post back or call..
I hope this helps.
Best wishes
Suzie
Welcome to the parents’ discussion board and thank you for your post. My name is Suzie and I am Family Rights Group's online adviser.
I am sorry to hear that your baby daughter was injured and that there are concerns about how her injury occurred. There is an ongoing police investigation and you, your partner and your children’s maternal grandparents were arrested and are subject to bail conditions.
You provide an explanation for how the injuries may have happened when your daughter was at the photoshoot as you describe how the photographer pressed down on her legs. You should discuss this with your criminal solicitors and children law solicitor if you have one (please see below).
You may find it helpful to read the information here about what happens when a child is suspected of having a non-accidental injury .
While the police are responsible for investigating whether a crime has been committed children’s services are the lead agency in terms of protecting children. Therefore, they are now involved in making arrangements to keep your children safe while the circumstances surrounding your daughter’s injuries are investigated. It is not clear from your post whether you are working with children’s services under a child protection investigation, whether have been asked to agree to a section 20 voluntary arrangement or whether children’s services have begun care proceedings. It is important to clarify this as it is relevant to your situation and to any advice given. It also makes a difference as if you are a parent in care proceedings you will have legal aid for representation from a specialist children’s law solicitor and if it is a section 20 voluntary arrangement you won’t have this legal representation.
Please see our advice information on child protection, section 20 voluntary arrangements and care proceedings for more detail.
From the information you provide, I think that the children have been placed with their paternal grandmother as their kinship foster carer . She is responsible for supervising contact between you and your partner and your children.
Your query relates to contact between your children and their maternal grandparents. They are also under police investigation and subject to bail conditions which as you say prohibits unsupervised contact with under 18s. I would expect that the bail conditions would also say that children’s services would need to be involved in any decisions around contact.
As you and your partner are the children’s parents, and as you both (probably) have parental responsibility for your children (not all fathers do, however) then even while there are bail conditions in place children’s services will normally ensure that you continue to have contact with your children once they are satisfied that it is being safely supervised. Your children’s paternal grandmother has been assessed as suitable to do this.
The maternal grandparents don’t have parental responsibility for your children (unless they have a court order giving them this e.g. a Child Arrangements Order or a Special Guardianship Order) so they do not have the same rights to supervised contact as you do. They can of course ask children’s services to arrange supervised contact but they are not required to do so. Again it would be helpful to know the children’s legal status in order to provide more specific advice. There are duties on children’s services to promote contact between children in care and their wider families especially significant relatives, if it is safe. The fact that there is an open criminal investigation is relevant here as the maternal grandparents are in the pool of possible perpetrators at the moment. That may change of course and this would mean that contact with the children should be reviewed.
It is definitely not the paternal grandmother’s responsibility to make decisions about whether she can supervise contact between the children and their maternal grandparents or not. She does not have parental responsibility, she is expected to work with children’s services to safeguard the children and to comply with their recommendations.
If you have a solicitor then talk this through with them. You are also welcome to post back here or to call our freephone advice line on 0808 8010366, Mon to Fri, 9.30 am to 3.00 pm (except bank holidays). Please say what process you are in, if you post back or call..
I hope this helps.
Best wishes
Suzie
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