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Partners sister died leaving three children

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 2:47 pm
by Farmers wife
Hi. This is my first post I hope somebody can help us.
My husbands sister died a couple of days ago leaving 3 young children. The dad, an ex, has serious drink and drug problems and has mostly been absent in their lives has resurfaced. My sister in law would want me and husband or grandparents to take the kids. What rights does this ex have if he suddenly decides the 3 kids should live with him? Also can he make a claim on house, car, pension etc as sister in law left no will. Who is next of kin, if its the young kids then would it be the dad? It was a sudden death and we are all worried kids who don't like their dad and don't want to live with him may be forced to. Any advice would he helpful. Thank you

Re: Partners sister died leaving three children

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:15 am
by Robin D
Hello Farmers Wife and welcome.

I am so sorry to hear of the death of your partners sister,

The matter of next of kin is a complex one as there is no legal definition in UK law. However, for probate I think you will find it goes in the order of:
Spouse (this can be complex if they were married, are long term separated, but not divorced)
Surviving parent
Children
Siblings.

If the father appears on the birth certificate of the children then he has Parental Responsibility. However, if the children are expressing concerns about living with him, or you have genuine concerns about his ability to care for them, then you may want to seek advice from a solicitor who in on The Children Panel. Also if the father does take the children and you have concern for their welfare you would need to speak to Children's Services at the local authority where the children are living, or possibly the NSPCC.

I hope @Suzie here can answer your questions more fully and I am sorry I cannot give you definitive answers, but I am just another forum member.

Re: Partners sister died leaving three children

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:28 pm
by Suzie, FRG Adviser
Dear Farmer’s wife

Welcome to the kinship carers’ discussion board. Thank you for your post. My name is Suzie. I am Family Rights Group’s online adviser. I am sorry that I was not able to respond to your post sooner.

I am very sorry to hear about your recent bereavement. Your sister in law died suddenly recently. She had 3 young children whom you believe she would have wanted you and your husband or the children’s grandparents to care for. Unfortunately, you think that she had not made a will, so no arrangements are in place. You are very worried that the children’s father may want the children to live with him. This is a concern for you as he has had limited involvement with the children, and you believe that he has serious drug and alcohol problems. You say that the children don’t want to live with their father either. You are also confused about next of kin and the practical arrangements following a sudden death.

I am sure that this has come as a great shock to your family and especially to your sister-in-law’s children. I hope that you can access support in your family and friend network and from the professionals involved. I am attaching a link here to bereavement support services for your information.

In your post, you are concerned that the children’s father may want to care for them, so I am guessing that for now you and your husband or the grandparents are looking after them. This would be classed as a private family arrangement.

If the children’s father is named on their birth certificates or was married to their mum, then he has parental responsibility (PR) for them. He has the right to make decisions including where/with whom the children should live.

Therefore, if the father wants the children to live with him, he has the right to say so. However, as you have concerns about his poor relationship with his children, and about serious drug and alcohol concerns you can raise this with children’s services or the NSPCC so that they are recorded and so that they can advise you. If the children’s father tried to remove them while under the influence of drugs or alcohol e.g. where you feared for their immediate safety, then you should call the police. They are the only agency with the power to remove children from a parent's care in an emergency without a court order. They would notify children’s services who would then take the lead in assessing the children’s needs and ensuring that they were safe. They would always look to family and friends to care for children in this situation, They could offer a family group conference (FGC) to help the children’s family network come together to make a safe family plan for the children including about who will care for them. Only the court can make a court order formalising this.

Another poster has provided helpful advice about seeking specialist legal advice from a children law accredited solicitor. Unfortunately, there is no legal aid available in family law case except in very limited circumstances. It is possible for relatives to apply for a court order themselves without a lawyer (if mediation is unsuccessful or in an emergency). I will set out where you can get further free or affordable private law advice or practical help.

There are two court orders that relatives can apply for to ask the court to give them parental responsibility and to allow them to care for children. The first is a Child Arrangements Order (CAO) and the second (more robust order as it gives almost exclusive PR) is a Special Guardianship Order (SGO). In both situations, the applicant needs to offer the parent mediation (unless it is an emergency). Relatives who are not already caring for children for a set period of time need the court’s permission to apply or need to meet certain eligibility criteria. If you needed to apply for PR urgently then you can ask for a temporary CAO but then proceed to seek an SGO. The court does not make temporary SGOs. You can see a summary of this information in this table but I would encourage you to go through our kinship care advice sheets below for much more detailed advice and guidance.

You will find all our kinship care advice sheets here. Please read the DIY guides to applying for a CAO and a SGO.

I know there is a lot to take in so perhaps you would like to ring the freephone advice line to speak to an adviser in more detail. The freephone advice line 0808 8010366 is open from 9.30 am to 3.00 pm, Mon to Fri.

You can get private law advice from:

Child Law Advice
Rights of Women
You can find free downloadable guides from Advice Now; they also offer an affordable legal advice service.
Support Through Court can offer help with form filling and procedures but not legal advice.

I am not able to advise you about all of your queries. Moneyhelper has a guide to what to do following a death which you can find here and a guide to sorting out the estate when there isn’t a will .

I hope this helps.

Please post back as and when you need to, or contact the advice service via one of the other options linked to here.
With best wishes

Suzie