Looking for advice

[TY4J74]

Hi,

Looking for some advice / help. We have no experience with any of this and from the get go it just seems very intimidating.

We recently had to have an assessment to which it went to a meeting and the outcome was a CPP.

Just looking for some clarification / was this all handled correctly? and is this the normal structure / response to these type of things.

Again, we have no experience or knowledge of any of this and are fairly in the dark around a response, can we challenge? If we challenge will it be held against us in a negative way?

Lets start,

We had a social worker come and do an assessment which lasted 45mins, a week later we received an update to say we have to go to a meeting and a report would be sent to us 48 hours before the meeting.
We didn't know what to do or expect and just followed along. We received the report...

The report was dreadful, not because we are bad people but it was worded so negatively against us. statements was incorrect, stuff we said was ignored, it seems only the 'bad' parts was presented on the report and nothing good.
Medical records was accessed that were 10-15 years old and this was used against us, its like they plucked a sentence from 2014 and added it to a sentence in 2026. There wasn't a history of constant issues, it was a one off thing
and that was it, but its been used against us.

There's hardly any context behind any of the statements they have used which doesn't show why x y z happened or occurred.

At the meeting, alot of my healthcare team were meant to attend and wanted to ! however did not receive the invites

Happy to go into a bit more detail if needed but just want to ask if this is a normal type of thing regarding these services?

Met a social person who didn't explain things to us, just asked us questions.
Sent a report which was totally untrue / fabricated / exaggerated / No option to challenge anything
Was told to fight our corner at the meeting - by the social assessment person
Meeting was, in my opinion biased
CPP given and a plan in place, waiting for a letter / email to clarify everything - reason unborn may be subject to emotional abuse - Please before judged, this just sounds terrible and isn't the case!

It just seems there was no communication, no honesty, no integrity, just an attack against us, all the good parts ignored and the old history, negative parts put in bold.

Any advice / help anyone can share please?

Thank you

[VD2ER]

I try and record my interaction with social workers. Get a phone where you can record conversations.

In the mean time make a note of the issues you've had so far and lodge them with the SW so there are no surprises in the future. Get someone else to write your report so it comes across as cold and factual.

A CPP is just that. I would embrace it as it should contain sensible practices. Don't be hostile to suggestions or you will be labelled as not accepting advice.

Invite Social Workers, make them tea or coffee, and tell them your plans and ask how they can be improved.

You either work with them, or against them.

My 2p's worth.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear TY4J74

Welcome to Family Rights Group’s parents’ discussion board. Thank you for your post. My name is Suzie. I am Family Rights Group’s online adviser. I see from your post that you and your partner are expecting a baby.

Congratulations! I know that it is a stressful and difficult time though.

I am sorry to hear about the difficulties that you have experienced. I understand that you have recently had a pre-birth assessment and an initial child protection conference for your unborn baby. The conference made a child protection plan under the category of emotional abuse. You describe very clearly how confusing the process was and that you were not provided with clear guidance or information about what to expect. Poor communication is not good social work practice.

You are wondering how/if to challenge and are concerned about how the social worker worded their report, the information they relied upon and the significance attached to medical information from 2014; you feel that you were not given the opportunity to respond at the conference itself.

I am sorry to hear this. It sounds as if children’s services could have managed the process better and spent more time with you as parents clarifying and understanding the information they gathered.

Our website information about child protection investigations and conferences sets out what their purposes are, how they should be carried out and how they should involve parents. I will add below for you to review to make sure that you have accurate information and understanding about the processes.

• the child protection process
• enquiries and assessment
• initial child protection conferences – this includes a section on what information the conference uses to decide what is best for a child.

You are unhappy with how information was presented in the conference so I will summarise below key points. The conference

• Looks at all the available evidence from existing records. And from the enquiries made before the conference.

However, the conference should make clear the type of information being looked at and taken into account; they should explain and record whether a piece of information is:

• Fact
• Observation
• Allegation

There are steps that you can take to challenge or to put forward your suggestions about what you would like to be done differently, within the legal framework.

As limited and poor communication are some of the key issues, you may find that our guide to working with a social worker will help you plan your communication with them.

Another parent has offered advice including about recording your interactions with your social worker. I would recommend that you ask the social worker’s consent to do so; in this way you can show that you are working transparently with them. If they are unhappy for you to record them then you can ask for a copy of their local authority policy on this and explain the reasons why you wish to do so etc. The law doesn’t prevent individuals making records for their own personal use but it is always best to seek consent before proceeding to ensure that you can maintain a good working relationship with the social worker.

You can ask for any factual errors in the social worker’s report to be corrected. You could email the social worker, copying in their manager and the conference Chair too, setting out what the errors are and what the correct information is. You can also set out your views about any information that is taken out of context or omitted and ask that your views be recorded.

I understand your concern about the significance of the incident in 2014 – it sounds as if it was a key factor considered by the conference. Although you explain that there is not a pattern of events it may be that the professionals are concerned that something similar could happen again. You may want to ask the social worker to discuss this further with you. You cannot stop them referring to it but you can work with them to demonstrate how things are now.

You can make a formal complaint about child protection processes and conference decisions.But it is not always the best thing to do and it does not change the child protection plan in place which continues. I will link to our complaints information here.

It might help though to consider how to work with children’s services now that there is a child protection plan. You could:

• Provide the details of the medical professionals you wanted to attend the conference and ask the social worker/Chair now to consider inviting them to the next conference.
• Ask for an advocate to assist you and/or your partner at the child protection meetings if you have a disability or are vulnerable. We have a template letter (1) you can adapt to use and a guide to working with an advocate.
• Ask for a family group conference to be arranged to bring your family and friends’ network together; this is particularly important where plans are being made for a baby. Please see our advice on family group conferences here.
• Ask for clarity about what work you and your partner are being asked to do to reduce the risk of harm to your baby. Cooperate with all plans and attend all appointments.

I know there is a lot of information here. As I don’t know what the specific concerns are I cannot offer tailored advice, but I would encourage you to call our freephone advice line on 0808 8010366 to talk through your situation in more detail with an adviser. If you prefer you can post again on this board or send an advice enquiry form.

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

[VD2ER]

I thought I would add to the recording aspect of conversations.

It may be courteous to ask for permission to record there is no legal requirement in UK law to inform others as long as you are party or can knowingly hear what is said.

I have never used a recording of a conversation in pursuit of an issue. What I might have done is claim what was said and I have never known a SW to counter my claim.

[In my opinion,] while SWs have a propensity to lie there is typically little point in catching them out, so to speak, because usually the subject of interest is not sufficiently important to affect the outcome and may look small minded. It is generally a means of diverting attention to say the real basis of SW involvement or an even the SW doesn't want to go into detail.

I will generally use recordings as I cannot always recall detail or such as the names of relevant people mentioned. It is an aide-memoire. However if it was ever claimed in a court you said something, which the recording clearly does not, then it may make a difference top the outcome. If it makes no, or little, difference then best let it pass as you will already questioned it's veracity.

Edited by Suzie for clarity and in accordance with rules of use.

[TY4J74]

Hi, sorry for a late reply.

We had the cpp plan with several things listed to support. This time we had the health team there and they was extremely supportive. It didn't feel one sided.
The plan is fine but..

SW is still pushing a MBU place, this was mentioned at the start but however, the health team strongly disagree. There is not any concern from any of the health team that this is needed, but SW seem to be fixated on it. Health team said even if a request was made, there's a high chance it would be declined as person does not require or meet the criteria. SW keep pushing this and told us that the legal team have sent a letter to ask us to reconsider the MBU place.
We asked what would happen if we declined to go and we was given no information on any further action.

When the SW mentions words like legal, mbu, reconsider, get a solicitor - this just adds to our worries.

Is this a normal thing to go through with SW?
There's a very poor communication / information level here and we're left in the dark with certain remakes as above, legal, solicitor. We're told not to worry and its standard for them to request this MBU.

Just looking for some advice on the best way to move forward

Thank you

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear TY4J74

Thank you for your update. My name is Suzie, I am an online adviser at Family Rights Group and will be replying to you today.

The first core group meeting of the child protection plan has been held. A core group meeting is used to progress a child protection plan. Please click on the link for further information and guidance.

I am glad to hear you found the input from the health team supportive but sorry to hear communications with the social worker remain poor.

Children’s services cannot ‘force’ you to go into a mother and baby unit for assessment. This is something you agree to do under a Section 20, voluntary care agreement or, under an interim care order (care proceedings). I have added HERE and HERE further information about both processes which I hope you find helpful.

If you decline a mother and baby placement ie you do not voluntarily agree under a Section 20 agreement or refuse to go under an ICO then children’s services may seek permission from the court to remove your child from your care. If this should this happen, children’s services have a duty to assess family members and close friends to care for your children whilst assessments are carried out. If this is not possible, they will place your child in foster care. We have lots of information regarding kinship care (friends or family care) on our website. I have added a link HERE for your information and guidance.

Depending on the strength of your family and friends network, a family group conference may be helpful when thinking about the type and level of support needed for your child to remain in your care. I have added HERE further information and guidance which explains the process. Please do take a look.

Before care proceedings are started, in most cases public law outline (PLO) is initiated. This is a process that children’s services must follow (subject to immediate safeguarding concerns). If PLO is started, then it will be important to appoint a solicitor to represent you. Children’s services will often provide a list of solicitors in your local area (they are not linked to children’s services). Alternatively, you can source your own. To support you with this I have added HERE a link to The Law Society. They have a facility to find a solicitor in your local area. You will need a child law solicitor preferably with child law accreditation.

I would suggest you try to find a way to work with the allocated social worker to evidence you are a safe and stable parent who is able to meet your child’s needs. We have created a working with social workers document in the hope of supporting this. The document sets out how to work well with social workers and what you may wish to consider if things are not going so well. It also provides some ‘top tips’ around communications and record keeping that you may find helpful. Please click on the link HERE for further information and guidance.

It is not ‘standard’ for children’s services to request a mother and baby placement. Where possible and safe to do so, children’s services should strive to assess children and parents in their own home however, when this is not possible, alternative arrangements will need to be made, one of which can be a mother and baby unit. Also, to point out, not all units are just for mother and babies, many have facilities for parents and baby i.e. father’s can be part of this process.

I hope the information provided is of help to you. Please post again if you have any further queries or you can call our free, confidential adviceline on 0808 801 0366 (Monday to Friday, 9:30am – 3pm). We also have a webchat which is currently open on Monday and Thursday afternoons.

Best wishes, Suzie