Caught between to Local Authorities

[ConcerenedDad2B]

My partner and I are expecting a baby in the new year. She has a daughter who lives with her mother in a neighbouring local authority and has had involvement with SS for a long time. Recently her daughter's SW threatened to take our baby away, despite us living in a different LA. We have been in regular contact with SS in our area and they have no concerns, though the daughter's SW has filed a report to our LA, they have reiterated they have no concerns and are definitely not planning on taking our baby.

However in our LA we only have 2 maternity units and one has just had its roof collapse, leaving only one. That's an hour away with no traffic. In rush hour it's over two hours away. However, there is one in the neighbouring LA which is 20 minutes away.

If we're in a rush and if traffic is heavy then the midwife advised us to go there. BUT, this is in the LA where the SW who has threatened us and reported us to our local SS is based.

If baby is born there, we are worried that she will take control and take the baby away before we can get home.

Can she do this? We're at the point where we're that worried we would risk having the baby on the hard shoulder rather than risk having it snatched from under our noses on a maternity ward.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear ConcernedDad2b

Welcome to the discussion board and thank you for your post. My name is Suzie, I am an online adviser and will be responding to you today. Congratulations on your partner’s pregnancy.

You explained that your partner has a child who lives with their maternal grandmother in a different local authority from where you and your partner currently reside. Children’s services have been involved with this child for a ‘long time’ and the allocated social worker has informed you that they have made a referral to children’s services in your local area. You say the social worker has made threats to remove your baby when it is born. You are worried that if, due to logistics, the baby is born in this local authority, the baby will be ‘snatched’ from your care in the maternity ward.

You are in contact with children’s services in your local authority and they have informed you they have no concerns regarding the care of the unborn child and have no plans to remove your child at birth.

Children’s services have a duty to inform another local authority when they are involved with a child in their area. This is set out in the Working Together to safeguard children HERE . Children’s services should provide relevant information to advise and inform the other local authority of the type and level of intervention they have with the child, setting out risks and strengths as they see them. The local authority will then decide whether this meets their threshold for intervention. The local authority responsible for any assessments will be the one where you are living at the time of the child’s birth. This means that if your baby is born in a hospital outside of your local authority, your local authority will remain responsible for completing any assessment.

In respect of your child being removed from you and your partner at birth. Children’s services would need to take the matter to court for this to happen. They cannot remove a child without first seeking approval from a court. The only people who can remove your child without notice is the police using their police powers. Please clink on the link HERE for further information regarding these procedures.

Depending on the concerns and you circumstances what might take place is a pre birth assessment. Please click on the link HERE for further information regarding this type of assessment.

I hope you find this information helpful. There are many ways to contact Family Rights Group, please do look at our website for further information about this or post again here if you have further questions.

Best wishes, Suzie

[ConcerenedDad2B]

Thank you Suzie for putting my mind at ease a little.

Since posting though things in the neighbouring LA have escalated to a PLO and my partner has been advised to take legal advice.


The LA provided a list of solicitors, is she obliged to use one of these or can she use another? I worry that using one that frequently works with the LA could have a conflict of interest.

Also their solicitor has previously represented my partner. Does this cause a problem and is there anyone we need to inform of this?

Fortunately our LA are still saying that they have no concerns but as my partner is registered as disabled they may offer her additional help (they already assigned a midwife in addition to the one from the hospital)

I find it hard to comprehend how two LA can have such different views.

[ConcerenedDad2B]

Had an update from the neighbouring authority yesterday. They are having a PLO meeting next Thursday. I have to date not had any input with anything related to my partner's daughter other than picking my partner up one afternoon and saying hello to a social worker as she was leaving.

I have been invited with my partner to meet with one of the social worker's on Friday to discuss the situation. I'm not sure if this is a courtesy meeting or something more formal but I am glad that they have taken my existence on board.

Having read the S47 in depth I have concerns myself about the daughter. I've discussed these with my partner. We have the kind of relationship where we do discuss things we disagree on and take advice from each other.

I'm seeing this as a positive development and hopeful that I can have a positive input on the situation. At the very least I can keep my partner calm and avoid confrontation which is the last thing we need.

I'm unsure of what will be discussed but I'm open to discussing everything, no matter how difficult that may be.

I've never been involved with social services until recently so really don't know what to expect.

Should I be discussing my background? I was groomed as a teenager by a paedophile, for example although SS never got involved. Would this be relevant to them?

I have always tried my best to help the daughter wherever possible and provided my details immediately when they asked my partner if they could do background checks (which they did over a year ago but claim to have no record of despite my partner having an email confirming it)

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear ConcernedDad2B

Thank you for your two updating posts which I respond to here.

The case relating to your partner’s daughter has been escalated by children’s services to the public outline process (PLO). This means that they are of the view that the child protection plan in place is not working as they had hoped to ensure the concerns regarding her safety and wellbeing were improving or being adhered to. Here is information about the public law outline PLO

It is standard practice for children’s services to provide a list of local solicitors if a case is escalated to PLO or they intend to issue court proceedings. To answer your question if she must use a solicitor on the list, the answer is no, she is able to have a solicitor of her choice. When choosing a solicitor it would be best to have one who is accredited to the Law Society children law panel. I have added information HERE as well as a link to the Law Society's find a solicitor pageto help you and your partner identify a solicitor.

You mention that the solicitor for children’s services has previously represented your partner. This is likely to present a conflict, and this should be told to the social worker and the solicitor your partner instructs to represent her at the PLO meeting.

As you and your partner are now expecting a baby you will be included in meetings with her as you should be informed about concerns regarding your unborn baby. The local authority where you and your partner are now living have done their own assessment and have no concerns about your unborn baby. The concerns relate to the neighbouring authority who have concerns which you say you share for her daughter.

As you have never been involved with children’s services before you may find it helpful to read the information HERE

You have not mentioned whether you and your partner would consider caring for her daughter together and this is something children’s services may wish to discuss going forward. The authority where you live would be the authority involved to assess you and your partner in respect of your baby. They have already advised that they have no concerns.

The PLO meeting will be to discuss the current concerns and how these might be addressed to prevent the local authority applying to the court for an order in respect of your partner’s daughter. This could include other family members, if any, being assessed as possible long-term carers for her. Please look again at the links in the previous response. Here is information about a PLO meeting

Regarding what you say to the social worker, it is difficult to tell you this as different procedures used by authorities. It is however important to be honest and open in your discussions with children’s services. Have you told the authority where you live now about your history? If you are suffering negatively from your past experience, then it may be helpful to share so you can get support from your home authority.

It is great that you are there to support your partner and as a couple you can put forward any proposals for her daughter.

You can remind children’s services of your previous involvement by providing a copy of the email. It is possible, however, that there was a omission in not logging the information you provided.

Hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

[ConcerenedDad2B]

The meeting last week with my partner's daughter's social worker went quite well. She stopped short of recommending that we apply for full custody but advised that we complete a parenting assessment as a couple rather than my partner doing it alone and also states that as our LA had no concerns about us as a couple that they would take the same approach provided we complete the parenting assessment together.

Spoke with the child's father at the weekend who said much the same; he would fight against my partner having custody but he has no objections to us as a couple getting custody. My partner was a little upset at this, but I actually thought it was a huge deal that he would be happy for us to bring his daughter up as a couple.

I was invited to the PLO meeting by the social worker on the provision that all other parties agreed. Unfortunately my partner's mother objected as she stated it was a "family matter and - no offence- I'm not family" (Just the father of her grandson)

Academic really though as I wouldn't be able to make it due to work commitments.

My partner is apprehensive about us having full custody as she is unsure if she can cope with her daughter and a new baby joining us around the same time, though I am trying to reassure her that I will do anything she needs. I believe (and everyone else has agreed) that the timing is perfect for the daughter to join us; she starts high school next September so will be moving schools then anyway. With the baby coming in February we want her involved as much as possible as we think the responsibility will help her whereas a lack on involvement will make her jealous and escalate her problems.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear ConcernedDad2B

Thank you for your updating post. I hope that your partner's pregnancy is going well.

I am glad that the social work visit went well. It sounds as if a joint parenting assessment for your partner’s daughter is a good idea especially as both children’s services and the child’s father agree with this.


In terms of ‘custody’ your partner already has parental responsibility (PR) for her daughter although your partner’s mother may also have PR if she has a Child Arrangements Order (CAO) or a Special Guardianship Order (SGO) for her. You don’t have PR although if it is agreed that the child should live with you, you can seek to acquire PR. You may find this information on parental responsibility helpful. As there is a PLO process already in place for your partner’s daughter the proposed legal arrangements for her will be explored during the process and by court if necessary.

The parenting assessment will explore your parenting capacity, but it will also consider support needs so if your partner is apprehensive about how she will cope this will be assessed. You mentioned previously that your partner has a disability; she may find it helpful to read our advice materials for parents with a disability and also to have a look at our useful links disability services page to find out what support may be available.

Children’s services may offer a family group conference (FGC) to your partner’s family to help you draw up a family plan which will keep your partner’s daughter safe and identity the best way to do this. You can find out more about FGCS here.

I hope this is helpful. If you have any further queries then please post back, call our freephone advice line on 0808 8010366, Mon to Fri, 9.30 am to 3.00 pm (except bank holiday), use our advice enquiry form or our webchat facility.

Best wishes

Suzie

[NewDad990325]

Just an update on what's happened. Had to create a new account as the old one (ConcernedDad2be) for some reason I can't log into.

Baby is in Care and Support. Which we are frequently told by our social worker is entirely voluntary and we can opt out at any time. In fact they tell us this so often that we think they might be trying to encourage us to opt out.


We missed a few CASP meetings before baby was born as pregnancy complications kept putting my partner in hospital. We did keep our SW informed and I attended an online CASP meeting a few hours before the birth from the hospital car park.

All involved in the meeting said they were happy with everything and that we had already put safeguarding in place for my partner's disability. They even went as far as saying that we had done their job for them.

Parenting assessment was done by my partner for her daughter in the neighbouring LA and while the results are yet to be revealed the feedback she had was very positive and we are not aware of any reason why the results shouldn't be good.

The meeting with the neighbouring LA are mostly revolving around concerns with the daughter's grandmother who is her primary caregiver.

Baby is doing well, despite arrival being 3 weeks premature. My partner is suffering from a little PND but generally doing well and SW keeps telling us that they have no concerns.

If the daughter comes to live with us, then obviously things could change and we're very reluctant to opt out of the Care and Support plan with our Social Services because we are aware that things could change quickly once the parenting assessments are released. Especially if we do end up with her daughter joining us.

Fortunately we have a good relationship with our SW which is another reason we don't want to lose her and at some point have a different one assigned who we are unable to get on with.

In summary though things are looking positive, especially with the baby. Thanks again for the advice and I will keep you updated.